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snakeherd - Posted - 11/03/2009: 09:26:43
I'm making more of an effort lately to use my thumb for melody notes - including the first string. Is this something done commonly, or should I just consider it a fun exercise and leave it at that?
Scott
meatmissle - Posted - 11/03/2009: 09:29:59
certainly not uncommon
-----------------------------------------------
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Prof - Posted - 11/03/2009: 09:33:00
quote:
I'm making more of an effort lately to use my thumb for melody notes - including the first string.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how does one go about fretting the first string with the thumb? Dan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've got it made in the shade if the tree don't fall...  
RyanHerr - Posted - 11/03/2009: 10:19:03
I do this a lot too.
Trewq36 - Posted - 11/03/2009: 10:19:03
Also, how about using the middle finger on the fifth string. I often practice TITM on each string and find that the fifth string is the harder one to achive a smooth roll.
Never play the same thing once......yoR
Edited by - Trewq36 on 11/03/2009 10:21:07
R Buck - Posted - 11/03/2009: 10:32:49
In two finger styles I could imagine using my thumb on the first string, but why in three finger? I do not get it.
RobBob
Music; the best way to count time. It is a journey not a destination.
www.blueridgerounders.com
snakeherd - Posted - 11/03/2009: 10:37:29
quote:
Originally posted by R Buck
In two finger styles I could imagine using my thumb on the first string, but why in three finger? I do not get it.
RobBob
Music; the best way to count time. It is a journey not a destination.
www.blueridgerounders.com
I get a different tone and volume using my thumb pick. I'm only doing it on 1/4 notes, so I don't have to worry about slowing down a roll. Scott
Edited by - snakeherd on 11/03/2009 10:42:39
minstrelmike - Posted - 11/03/2009: 10:41:56
I don't see any legal problems with it.
OTOH, in order to keep a roll going, it's easier if the thumb strikes the 2nd string instead.
If you are in open G tuning, that means just hitting the 2nd string three frets higher than the fret you use on the 1st string. (Other tunings will be slightly different).
Another way of thinking about it is to just make the next higher chord up the neck and use the next string inside.
A way to practice is to just fool around on the G scale on the second string using rolls that only pluck the 1st, 2nd and 5th strings and only fret the 2nd string with a single finger. This gets you used to moving the melody onto the 2nd string from the first, if you want. The frets to use on the 2nd string are:
0 1 3 5 7 9 10 12 13 15 17 19 21
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
drwt1 - Posted - 11/03/2009: 12:04:49
Why on Earth would anyone ever pick the fifth string with their middle finger?? Am I missing something here?? Why would anyone ever want to pick the first string with their thumb? Practice is just that...practice....playing the banjo in ways that you want to play it .....How can anyone keep a roll going when they are jumping down to the 1st string with their thumb?? It sounds like you guys are just looking for ways to make it more complicated rather than easier...I've been playing banjo for over 31 years, and I have never played a tune that involved picking the 1st string with my thumb, OR the fifth with my middle finger....I can think of no reason why anyone would ever need to practice this....How many of you guys are seriously trying to learn this instrument, and how many are just trying to goof off with it?? Nothing wrong with either...it's all for fun...I have serious concerns with a BUNCH of people's reasons for being on here. This site IMHO, is not to show off anyone's knowledge of musical jargon...So...Why don't we quit with the off the wall stuff, and post things that are going to help the average Joe trying to learn this infuriating instrument?? I can see picking the 2nd string with your thumb, I pick the 4th string a lot with my index....but not my middle...wow....This post is not aimed at new pickers..they don't know any better...it's aimed at guys that seem to be consumed with showing off their knowledge, even if it does sound kooky....as always....just MHO...
Edited by - drwt1 on 11/03/2009 12:07:11
jhedblom - Posted - 11/03/2009: 12:11:55
Prof I love your dogs. I should include pics of my collies_ music lovers the pair. Jack
jhedblom - Posted - 11/03/2009: 12:12:52
Prof I love your dogs. I should include pics of my collies_ music lovers the pair. Jack
snakeherd - Posted - 11/03/2009: 12:33:06
Wow!
I didn't know that I was messing with forbidden stuff! I never noticed "thumb picking first string" on the 7 deadly sins list.
I shall cease this practice immediately (at least publicly).
Scott
Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/03/2009: 12:50:25
Scott, it's your banjo, play it the way you want to. If using your thumb on the 1st string works for you, go for it.
Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo
drwt1 - Posted - 11/03/2009: 12:54:34
I agree, Scott..wasn't trying to tell you you couldn't do it...sorry if I came across that way...I was only saying ...aaawww.. ferget it... just pick yer jo...
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/03/2009: 13:00:13
Scott--
It's not commonly done in standard, rolling Scruggs-style bluegrass playing. However, it's useful for single-string licks. Even Earl did it on occasion, most notably in "Pike County Breakdown".
--Ira
snakeherd - Posted - 11/03/2009: 13:55:04
quote:
Originally posted by drwt1
I agree, Scott..wasn't trying to tell you you couldn't do it...sorry if I came across that way...I was only saying ...aaawww.. ferget it... just pick yer jo...
Dean; Don't worry. I'm a lousy banjo player with thick skin (and deteriorating hearing according to my wife). You hadn't hurt my feelings - I was just getting a chuckle. Scott
RyanHerr - Posted - 11/03/2009: 14:05:38
quote:
Originally posted by R Buck
In two finger styles I could imagine using my thumb on the first string, but why in three finger? I do not get it.
When I use my thumb on the 1st string, I am basically playing a 2 finger style, although I am technically using 3 fingers. beat 1: thumb (on any string) beat 2: middle (if playing 1st string) or index (if not) ... and repeat! See this page for a better description of the style: http://www.banjosessions.com/jun08/Gitlin.html-Ryan.
Daveasti - Posted - 11/03/2009: 14:51:29
quote:
Originally posted by drwt1
Why on Earth would anyone ever pick the fifth string with their middle finger?? Am I missing something here?? Why would anyone ever want to pick the first string with their thumb? Practice is just that...practice....playing the banjo in ways that you want to play it .....How can anyone keep a roll going when they are jumping down to the 1st string with their thumb?? .............
I pick with the thumb on the first string all the time. I can also do a roll on only one string. It's easy, try it. If you are doing single string licks/notes on the first string, using the thumb and index finger of the picking hand is the best way to do it. Using the middle on the 5th string is definitely not done much in banjo picking. The reason is that after the 5th fret, it's the same as the first string anyway, and doing single string picking is much easier on the first string than it is on the 5th.
Edited by - Daveasti on 11/03/2009 14:54:02
drwt1 - Posted - 11/04/2009: 07:43:26
My Fellow Banjo Pickers..I suppose I went off the deep end on this post...I'm just so doggone burnt up with these guys that post on here and lay all this musical jargon out there...you know, all about theory, bars, measures..stuff like that. I understand a lot of it is useful. What gets me is how hard these folks seem to be working at trying to make this thang seem to be some mystical, difficult(it AIN'T easy) beast to learn. I guess it all goes back to how I learned the banjo. I taught myself. Now, before someone goes off on me about how I prob'ly have all my notes wrong, or I have my BPM too high, too low, or something in between, or I have my notes in the wrong bar, measure, or whatever, I have always...ALWAYS, been told that if you start picking at the first of the tune, and quit picking at the end of it, and you can recognize the tune, then you ain't wrong. All these "cookie cutter" banjo pickers out there...the ones that if they all picked the same tune, you couldn't tell one from the other, where is the talent in that?? So, don't tell me that I put one too many notes in this measure, or I lacked one in this bar, or something else...I don't know all the passwords to get into your club...but I can play my banjo....and I play it good enuf to make money at it...even if I do play an extra note here or one less there...and, before I forget, MEA CULPA....I forgot about "Pike County Breakdown"....I DO pick the 1st string with my thumb on that one...but I ain't rolling then.....When I die and get to Heaven, maybe then I'll be able to play my banjo perfectly...til then, I'm gonna play it like I do...which is good enuf to entertain 250-300 folks every Saturday night....Now, you may not feel better, but I sure enuf do.....but like always...just MHO...
xplainer - Posted - 11/04/2009: 07:55:35
Wow Dean.
I can't believe you just wrote that!
Why...because that is me.
Well, except I don't play in front of hundreds and make money.
Self taught and still learning.
Great post.
-Jimmy
snakeherd - Posted - 11/04/2009: 08:14:40
Dean,
I agree with you. If it sounds good, it can't be 'wrong'.
Scott
WildJimbo - Posted - 11/04/2009: 13:39:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ira Gitlin
Scott--
It's not commonly done in standard, rolling Scruggs-style bluegrass playing. However, it's useful for single-string licks. Even Earl did it on occasion, most notably in "Pike County Breakdown".
--Ira
As usual I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I just came here to say what Ira said. So yeah, what he said.  Jim Pankey  
John3 - Posted - 11/04/2009: 14:33:04
99.9% of the time the first string is not picked with the thumb, and it might not be at all depending on how you play Pike County. I never pick the 5Th string with any finger but the thumb. If you are using the rolls correctly, you will never pick that way.
Daveasti - Posted - 11/04/2009: 15:30:13
quote:
Originally posted by drwt1
My Fellow Banjo Pickers..I suppose I went off the deep end on this post...I'm just so doggone burnt up with these guys that post on here and lay all this musical jargon out there...you know, all about theory, bars, measures..stuff like that. I understand a lot of it is useful. What gets me is how hard these folks seem to be working at trying to make this thang seem to be some mystical, difficult(it AIN'T easy) beast to learn. I guess it all goes back to how I learned the banjo. I taught myself. Now, before someone goes off on me about how I prob'ly have all my notes wrong, or I have my BPM too high, too low, or something in between, or I have my notes in the wrong bar, measure, or whatever, I have always...ALWAYS, been told that if you start picking at the first of the tune, and quit picking at the end of it, and you can recognize the tune, then you ain't wrong. All these "cookie cutter" banjo pickers out there...the ones that if they all picked the same tune, you couldn't tell one from the other, where is the talent in that?? So, don't tell me that I put one too many notes in this measure, or I lacked one in this bar, or something else...I don't know all the passwords to get into your club...but I can play my banjo....and I play it good enuf to make money at it...even if I do play an extra note here or one less there...and, before I forget, MEA CULPA....I forgot about "Pike County Breakdown"....I DO pick the 1st string with my thumb on that one...but I ain't rolling then.....When I die and get to Heaven, maybe then I'll be able to play my banjo perfectly...til then, I'm gonna play it like I do...which is good enuf to entertain 250-300 folks every Saturday night....Now, you may not feel better, but I sure enuf do.....but like always...just MHO...
What are you going on about? I'm confused. First you wonder why people would play thumb on 1st string and middle on 5th string, then you come back and talk about people being "cookie cutter" banjo pickers. That doesn't make any sense at all. Of course "jargon" and "theory" are useful, in fact, theory is one of the most important things you can know if you want to play good music. Bars and measures? Yeah, I'd say that is pretty important. No one here was talking about perfect picking and there's no special club, but there is nothing wrong with discussing techniques, no matter how "off the wall" they seem.
Edited by - Daveasti on 11/04/2009 15:35:38
Banjoal - Posted - 11/04/2009: 15:55:16
Instead of thumb on the first string, I like to play the note on the second string with the thumb 3 frets higher. i.e., open first = 3rd fret second. Especially if no note immediately before.
If I play thumb on first, I'll turn my hand over, and have trouble getting it back inot position.
Of course if the preceeding note is also a 2nd string note, it might sound choppy. and crossing fingers can be challenging.
But that's what I'd do.
YMMV,
Al
KI4PRK - Posted - 11/04/2009: 16:18:32
Music theory is quite useful. For banjo players wanting to go beyond the world of bluegrass or oldtime (god forbid!), it might be even more so. One way to find out about music theory is to ask more experienced players. I had heard the term "Tritone Substitution" someplace, asked about it here, and got an answer. I wasn't trying to show off; if anything, just the opposite. Assuming you don't go putting in flat-fives & chord substitutions everywhere just 'cuz you can (and the like), music theory is in no way detrimental, only beneficial. I taught myself banjo. And guitar, & mandolin. I also taught myself music theory.
Oh yeah, and bars & measures and "stuff like that" are crucial to anyone playing western music (& I'm not talking about singing cowboys here)
Don't be so quick to judge.
73, Brennen
Bill Monroe (to Don Reno): Where's your capo, Don?
Don (to Bill): Where's yours?
Edited by - KI4PRK on 11/04/2009 16:21:30
drwt1 - Posted - 11/05/2009: 03:57:41
No judging going on here. I've read a lot of posts on here that were useless, plain and simple. I've read a lot of posts on here that were extremely helpful. All I'm saying is "theory" is something that I wouldn't recognize if it jumped up and bit me in the knee. Oh, yeah...I taught myself banjo, mandolin, guitar, bass...even can play drums when I want to....that's just more of what I was spouting off about...This is the BANJO hangout...not interested in mando, guitar, bass, or drums....not here....Bars and measures may be important to me(I play Western music)....but because that's how the music is written..not because I know they're in there. I suppose the main thing that's bothering me is all these professors in here...who knows how many of them can even play a bar or measure...they go on about all this stuff, while here me and a bunch of others who can't tell you one thing about bpm or measures or bars, yet we earn real money at doing this stuff that we are so ignorant about. The proof is in the pudding...people don't pay at the door to hear talk about theory...they want to hear music....that's what I do. Theory?? My theory is that most of you guys would fly if you were confronted with 300 people waiting to hear you rip off a flat foot tune...that's MY theory...
minstrelmike - Posted - 11/05/2009: 07:03:17
I agree with tweak there.
The proof may be in the pudding, but frankly, if I'm asking for advice, it doesn't really matter how well someone picks, what matters is how well they give advice, how well they can explain things. If you want to listen to someone play, then it does matter and it doesn't matter how well they can explain things.
The other problem with theory is that if we are going to talk about anything, then we need names else we cannot refer to it.
Yet having a plethora of names and concepts often makes things seem more complex than they are.
And then folks add their own connotations. Reading music is just about as easy as reading tab. I think one reason folks think it's harder is because if you read music, they assume you also have to know all the music theory stuff. And that ain't so.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
Daveasti - Posted - 11/05/2009: 07:13:15
Sorry Mike, I deleted my post there. I didn't want to come off as mean or insulting, I'm not like that. drwt1 seems to have derailed the topic and I continued taking it down a wrong path and I apologize.
snakeherd - Posted - 11/05/2009: 14:51:39
Don't worry about derailing the topic. I've got enough answers to settle my curiosity.
Scott
5stringpicker2 - Posted - 11/05/2009: 18:18:28
I find that when I play Pike County Breakdown I use my thumb first finger for the 1st string 3 2 3 2 notes. where ever and how ever you can get a note and play a smooth roll do it.
"There Can Be Only Only!"
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