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lazyarcher - Posted - 11/02/2009: 12:34:21
Check out the new Saga Flint Hill banjos...themandolinstore.com/scripts/p...duct=8920
Its a DIRECT theft of an RK80 Professional...Saga even copies the Recording King cataloge description TO THE WORD....
"The Flinthill Professional Banjo
The Flinthill Professional resonator banjo combines classic pre-war style features and desirable modern touches to create the ultimate bluegrass banjo. This model features a mahogany resonator, mahogany neck, bound ebony fretboard, American Standard thread hardware, 20-hole tone ring and a 3-ply rim. This model copiesthe most supremely crafted banjos from the Golden Age of musical instruments. The Professional features a floral peghead and inlay and an authentic Mastertone-style flange. With its exceptional tone and handcrafted perfection, this banjo will appeal to players as well as collectors"
All Saga has done is change the name on the peghead. I guess when you get your banjo design ripped off down to the smallest detail, it means that yours are the BEST around!!!!
SHAME...SHAME...SHAME...SHAME...SHAME...SHAME...SHAME...SHAME...SHAME.............
Dave Jack
Edited by - lazyarcher on 11/04/2009 10:22:02
Bradskey - Posted - 11/02/2009: 12:40:57
I'm confused... is this a joke? WHAT is that thing? RKR8? WTH? Almost sounds like TML made it.
Is Flinthill a Saga brand? It can't be exactly like an R80 for that price, must have a cheap ring or rim or tuners or all 3 most likely. I guess anybody is welcome to use style 6, although you're right, I have read the marketing description spill somewhere before.
Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/02/2009: 12:58:33
That ain't the Flint Hill that was in the earlier post.What's going on here?
Is there sculdugery afoot?
Wayne
sugarinthegourd - Posted - 11/02/2009: 13:32:01
A lot of the Chinese-built guitars show up under several brand names. There are usually subtle differences but they are virtually identical.
Win a FREE copy of the New Lost City Ramblers' 3-CD retrospective: sugarinthegourd.com
Prof - Posted - 11/02/2009: 13:36:00
Looks like my banjo -- with a different label on the case....
Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've got it made in the shade if the tree don't fall...
 
Bradskey - Posted - 11/02/2009: 13:41:52
quote:
Originally posted by sugarinthegourd
A lot of the Chinese-built guitars show up under several brand names. There are usually subtle differences but they are virtually identical.
Well yes, and they do the same with all manner of worthless-to-mediocre Asian banjos too, but you don't see re-badged GF-85's (as far as I know). And I certainly wouldn't expect to see a re-badged version of any banjo made in the RK factory. Of course I don't know the business, but I can't imagine why TML would be party to taking a winner like the RK-80 and trashing and diluting its image by making a cheaper boutique knock-off to slap meaningless brand labels onto. If that's really what they're doing I think its kinda disgusting.
lazyarcher - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:14:07
NEWS FLASH!!!
A Recording King employee who wishes to remain anonymous has confirmed that there has been NO AUTHORIZED copy of their banjos allowed...by Saga or anyone else. Mr.Rich will be making a public statement in the near future..after consultations with all the powers that be.
I can't believe a USA company like SAGA would have the kahoonas to rip off a product like the RK banjo.
There must be an answer...an excuse..a reasonable explaination.....
.........because no-one can be this stupid..or crooked...or dirt-bagish.....
Dave Jack
Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:17:04
I don't like the looks of this.Maybe there is a logical explanation thats not built on deceit.
RB100 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:25:44
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Holcombe
I don't like the looks of this.Maybe there is a logical explanation thats not built on deceit.
I would suggest that we wait for an explanation from *authoritative sources* on this. Anything else is pure speculation and the reputation of folks such as Richard Keldson (sp) of Saga and the good folks at TML deserve this amount of respect. IMO...  First Huber tone rings and now this...Is the moon still full?  I cannot imagine that most of us would make these kind of statements and be this quick to rush to judgment based on hearsay when dealing in person with friends and neighbors...again, just my $0.02. Bill "I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver
Edited by - RB100 on 11/02/2009 14:33:10
Retropicker - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:27:07
I love this!
$800 they are going for the throat.
Silvio?
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
Edited by - Retropicker on 11/02/2009 14:28:56
lazyarcher - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by RB100
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Holcombe
I don't like the looks of this.Maybe there is a logical explanation thats not built on deceit.
I would suggest that we wait for an explanation from *authoritative sources* on this. Anything else is pure speculation and the reputation of folks such as Richard Keldson (sp) of Saga and the good folks at TML deserve this amount of respect.
IMO...
First Huber tone rings and now this...Is the moon still full?
I cannot imagine that most of us would make these kind of statements and be this quick to rush to judgment based on hearsay when dealing in person with friends and neighbors...again, just my $0.02.
Bill
"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver
Maybe none of this is heresay...or speculation. Lets hear from some of the Saga execs, or from those that are selling this unauthorized ripoff. Maybe they're hot...???? Dave Jack
snakeherd - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:52:43
Aren't all these Masterclones ultimately rip offs? What's original about any of them?
I'm not disputing that there may be some legal problems with this.
Scott
Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:55:35
I think it's an RK product. See themandolinstore.com/scripts/p...tegory=65 ...It appears to even have an RK number. I saw no Saga connection posted. Where did you find that?
Saga's website has no such banjo. The Saga Flinthill is a cheap entry level banjo with a plastic shell. Richard Keldsen has no need to copy RK to sell banjos. The Gold Stars do just fine.
Bill
kyblugrass - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:56:18
I'm pretty new at this, so bare with me. I looked on sagamusic.com, is this the correct Saga site? I couldn't find anything that looks like the listing on Flint Hills. I'm so confused......
But, it is interesting, if you go back a page in the above link to this one themandolinstore.com/scripts/p...tegory=65 , you will see this stated.
"Banjo - Flinthill Professional 5 String (RKR8)
Flinthill R-80 5 String banjo with case. This is identical to the Recording King RK-R80.
Set up included by Doug Piper."
Scott
“You Can Hang a Sign on a Pig Saying It's a Horse...But It’s Still Just a Pig.”
steve davis - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:58:31
Just another kind of "Gibson" isn't it?
erstokke - Posted - 11/02/2009: 14:59:32
Buy one quick before it is removed. They say this banjo "will appeal to players as well as collectors". If it is stopped by lawyers, it will be sold in a very low number, making it a true collectors item 
Great price, too! Nothing to get upset about.
My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway
Edited by - erstokke on 11/02/2009 15:01:50
Bradskey - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:02:39
themandolinstore.com/scripts/p...tegory=83
The text here says its identical to an RK-80, which if RK didn't make it then it most certainly is not.
Yes they all copy Gibson to some extent but that doesn't mean all these masterclones don't have their own identities. A Huber Jim Mills model is just ripping off Gibson right? lol. It seems pretty clear this instrument is meant to pass itself off as a Recording King at a bargain price.
Getzik9009 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:07:51
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH
AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
Greg will do anything for attention. Love photoshop.
IF IT IS TRUE WHAT CAME FIRST? THE SAGA OR THE RECORDING KING?
Edited by - Getzik9009 on 11/02/2009 15:46:55
steve davis - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:12:42
If it's ok to copy Gibson why isn't it ok to copy RK?
RB100 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:16:59
To quote myself "Where is the *authoritative* source?" And like Bill Rogers also asks, where is the definitive link (or connection) to Saga Music and I am referring to the maker of Goldstars - not some entry level instrument that might refer to itself as Saga 'something or other'?
Quite simply I see no connection to Saga Musical Instruments here anywhere...I don't even see the name "Saga" anywhere in the ad at the mandolin store (though I admit I did not go into great detail in this site).
themandolinstore.com/scripts/p...duct=8920
Where did that information that somehow Saga was involved originate? I'll bet Richard K. would also possibly like to know this as well. I certainly need more definitive evidence before I am going to be using such strong language to define someone or their product...!
Methinks it is not out of the realm of possibility that someone may be having some fun with photoshop here... Or perhaps we should be asking the Mandolin Store to explain this...first hand evidence is hard to dispute.
While we all enjoy the back and forth of opinionated banjo pickers on this forum, real people's feelings and reputations are at stake.
Bill
"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver
North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/
Edited by - RB100 on 11/02/2009 15:43:26
gibson1933 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:22:13
This isn't a copy........this IS an RK! The factory where the RK's were built just engraved Flinthill in the pearl block,
put a different sticker in the rim, and put a different label on the case. I WENT to Doug Piper's house, took the
banjo apart and inspected it. This isn't a copy.......it's a Recording King R80.......that's been ripped off by "someone".
Whether it is Saga, the old RK factory where they were being built, or some Chinese hijacked a pallet of RK's there in China,
these banjos are RECORDING KINGS!
Just my opinion.........
Dick
sawmillroad.net
Getzik9009 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:48:22
I haven't had a laugh like this is weeks. Greg is a riot.
Dick you knew about this and didn't tell us? Shame on you.
RB100 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:51:15
quote:
Originally posted by gibson1933
This isn't a copy........this IS an RK! The factory where the RK's were built just engraved Flinthill in the pearl block,
put a different sticker in the rim, and put a different label on the case. I WENT to Doug Piper's house, took the
banjo apart and inspected it. This isn't a copy.......it's a Recording King R80.......that's been ripped off by "someone".
Whether it is Saga, the old RK factory where they were being built, or some Chinese hijacked a pallet of RK's there in China,
these banjos are RECORDING KINGS!
Just my opinion.........
Dick
sawmillroad.net
So, Dick, I respect your knowledge. Again, the connection to Saga??? Chinese products get ripped off all the time - great black market - perhaps some of these have found their way here. I would like to hear from the Mandolin Store as to their source. Perhaps Mr. Piper could inform us??? Bill "I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/
Edited by - RB100 on 11/02/2009 15:52:48
gibson1933 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 15:58:10
David, it is NOT my place to adjudicate blame in this, take sides, etc.......I have no dog in this fight and I have NO IDEA "how" this happened......I just wanted to clear up the misconception that RK's had been "copied". They have not been copied......they are RK banjos that have had a different name engraved in the headstock block.
Just my opinion.........
Dick
sawmillroad.net
lethegoodtimesroll - Posted - 11/02/2009: 16:00:50
Well if these Banjos are being sold for $799..they must have gotten them dirt cheap!
eagleisland - Posted - 11/02/2009: 16:20:36
eagleisland
"I was halfway to Old Kentucky when the drugs began to kick in." - Hunter S. Monroe
Getzik9009 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 16:21:47
No No No No No No No No
The RK engraving cost $500
Even I figured that out 
kyblugrass - Posted - 11/02/2009: 16:21:51
quote:
Originally posted by eagleisland
eagleisland
"I was halfway to Old Kentucky when the drugs began to kick in." - Hunter S. Monroe
THAT is the funniest thing I have ever seen on here. Scott “You Can Hang a Sign on a Pig Saying It's a Horse...But It’s Still Just a Pig.”
gibson1933 - Posted - 11/02/2009: 16:42:46
quote:
Originally posted by Getzik9009
No No No No No No No No
The RK engraving cost $500
Even I figured that out
Yeah, yeah..........whatever. However, I did just confirm from the Mandolin Store that the banjos were, indeed, purchased from Saga. Let someone else figure this all out........I'm done. Just my opinion......... Dick sawmillroad.net
silvioferretti - Posted - 11/02/2009: 16:49:51
I know the explanation, and it's a simple one if one has an idea of the way quite a few Asian factories work. But I'm not allowed to divulge it, for obvious reasons, the main one being the fact that my connection with Saga is personal and not professional. I first heard the story of this batch of banjos at IBMA, and hoped it wouldn't turn into the mess that it seems to be now. The cat is out of the bag now, and I'm not in the position of explaining, defending, justifying anything or anybody. Somebody here had the right view of what really happened, but again, my lips are sealed, and even if they were not I wouldn't exactly know everything, so I better shut up.
"If you're gonna have a vice, try to find one that will keep you outta jail and maybe alive a little longer" - Alvin Youngblood Hart.
Silvio Ferretti scorpionmusic.com
redwinemusic.net
Retropicker - Posted - 11/02/2009: 17:17:47
...................._RK< >Saga_....................
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
lazyarcher - Posted - 11/02/2009: 17:22:15
OK, maybe I shouldn't call people at Saga douche bags...thats usually reserved for my special friends like Grich...
...but I don't understand for one minute why they are putting these banjos on the market. I understand how they appeared, but I cannot for the life of me comprehend how and why a reputable company would/could allow these out of whatever back door they came from end up in stores in the USA. I doubt that people in charge wouldn't know about the instruments or know that they've been altered.
I look forward to seeing what comes out in the wash with this one. Recording King came under a lot of scrutiny and a fair bit of criticism when they 1st came out...now they seem to be the victims. Hmmmmmmm.......
Dave Jack
Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/02/2009: 19:01:01
Is this a case of how low can you go?
lazyarcher - Posted - 11/02/2009: 19:05:35
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Holcombe
Is this a case of how low can you go?
The bar appears to have been set very low on this one....  Dave Jack
DHoffmeyer - Posted - 11/02/2009: 20:14:17
Montgomery Ward ripped off Gibson in the 30's!
no...wait.. nevermind.
Probably a similar deal here.
Dean
FXHERE - Posted - 11/02/2009: 21:10:15
You should buy one if you can, they are going to be very rare...I got mine..
Pre-War Picker-----New Banjo
Retropicker - Posted - 11/02/2009: 21:57:52
They should have called them "The Bootleg"
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/03/2009: 00:09:13
Ain't capitalism wonderful?
Bill
Banjowen - Posted - 11/03/2009: 01:52:30
It's gotta be a joke, why would anyone want to copy an RK banjo when their are better makes of banjos they could copy......
Owen.
banjohollow.ic24.net/index.htm
Definition of Cricket by Robin Williams, "Cricket is basically baseball on valium"
Edited by - Banjowen on 11/03/2009 02:24:22
country frank - Posted - 11/03/2009: 02:48:42
Good price, if it lasts.
Proud Union Man
Regards from London.
Edited by - country frank on 11/03/2009 02:49:29
Wayne Holcombe - Posted - 11/03/2009: 06:44:33
Don't companies that make stuff in China have to have a Chinese partner? And if the Chinese partner decides on a new plan of business without the other partners knowledge or consent,what does that mean for all the other business's that have relocated to China?
Might be just the tip of the iceberg.The implications of this might bogle the mind.And all over a banjo.Who would have thunk it?
The Old Timer - Posted - 11/03/2009: 07:16:50
Let us not forget that "The Flint Hill" is also a Gibson Earl Scruggs model.
Both Gibson, and Scruggs Music, have been known to defend their trademarks and designs!
The Old Timer
"This here man is such a sap, he won't hold you on his lap, unless you are an old five string banjo!" Lester Flatt singing to Pearl about Earl Scruggs as husband material
The Old Timer - Posted - 11/03/2009: 07:18:48
Ooops, wait a minute, if this banjo is named/engraved "Flinthill", maybe we're pronouncing it wrong. Maybe it should be spoken "Flynn-Thill"?
"It's SPELLED Raymond Luxury-Yacht, but it's pronounced Throat Warbler-Mangrove." Monty Python
The Old Timer
"This here man is such a sap, he won't hold you on his lap, unless you are an old five string banjo!" Lester Flatt singing to Pearl about Earl Scruggs as husband material
Cabin_Hill - Posted - 11/03/2009: 08:06:25
Not unless Gibson has a finger in the pie. Epiphone has expanded.
The plot thickens. What a way to recover $250mil.
The sad part for original RK owners is the used RK market just lost 50% value.
Uggggggggggg
fiddlebuster - Posted - 11/03/2009: 08:08:35
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer
Ooops, wait a minute, if this banjo is named/engraved "Flinthill", maybe we're pronouncing it wrong. Maybe it should be spoken "Flynn-Thill"?
"It's SPELLED Raymond Luxury-Yacht, but it's pronounced Throat Warbler-Mangrove." Monty Python
The Old Timer
"This here man is such a sap, he won't hold you on his lap, unless you are an old five string banjo!" Lester Flatt singing to Pearl about Earl Scruggs as husband material
Or maybe Frint Hirr The way I see it, the Good Lord made us all, and if we're good enough for him, we ought to be good enough for each other. Jed Clampett
Bradskey - Posted - 11/03/2009: 08:11:43
That's what I was getting at earlier but was too subtle about it -- I've never heard of "Flinthill" (one word), which is what it looked like it was engraved as, although that cheap Saga FHB55 seems to be listed everywhere (mostly on crappy shopping zone/deals sites) as "Flinthill". It sounds like a really crappy Asian knockoff label.
Just think how many ways you could pronounce that... flintle, flin-thill, flinth-ill, lol
Edited by - Bradskey on 11/03/2009 08:13:13
Tomcat - Posted - 11/03/2009: 08:48:42
Just when you thought it was safe to leave your banjer on the front porch!
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