Cottonmouth - Posted - 10/31/2009:  20:35:07

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I brought this question up long ago with very little response, so I'll try again. Do any clawhammerists play open-back banjos with flat head tone rings? If so, how do you like them versus a 1/4" brass flat hoop tone ring, for instance? I know a flat head ring would be heavy and perhaps too cumbersome for some folks.

"Look upward; He IS coming back!"

"What happens in heaven, stays in heaven"

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/31/2009:  20:51:52

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I used to have one such. Had a tubaphone-like quality, but not the volume of a tubby. A good-sounding banjo, but I preferred my Essex and the Ome I still had at the time. I preferred it to a flat hoop ring though. No heavier than a bracket-band Whyte Laydie. The Mastertone design was made with a resonator in mind from the get-go, and it's never seemed to me to be quite as good as an openback as are the Fairbanks, Vega and B&D designs and their modern versions.

Bill

Ray58 - Posted - 10/31/2009:  22:15:16

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I had the opposite question. I like the sound of my tubaphone better than a flathead ring and wondered how a tubaphone would sound in a resonator banjo for Bluegrass? I've love to hear one. I suspect I'd like it.

gary schattl - Posted - 10/31/2009:  22:48:55

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I am actually building a vega 60's pot with a flathead tone ring .I bought it from a fellow BHO member who used it for bluegrass.I'm going to try it with and without a resonator and see what it sounds like.Should be interesting.

Rusty old student :
I learn something new every day

howseth - Posted - 10/31/2009:  23:53:44

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My Ome open back has a 12" Silverspun tone ring that really looks like a flat head - but I suppose there are differences (It's based on the old B&D Silverspun design, so I have been told). It is not that heavy a banjo. It has been my favorite sounding open back. It has sweet clarity - with a bit of growl.

Howard

dixie kiwi - Posted - 11/01/2009:  00:51:53

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Here's a sweet YouTube clip of Mark Johnson promoting his custom Deering Ivanhoe no-flange flathead openback with his 'clawgrass' style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KjPlkpezSk

Alan

Helix - Posted - 11/01/2009:  04:36:17

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Say the content stays the same, wood and brass, then small changes in form is how we compete. The flathead tone ring is after sustain and is successful, the weight is the tradeoff.

But with laminated rims as a baseline, then 1/4" roundstock rolled brass and the limited contact patch don't even compare with production of snap, crackle and pop. Attack, sustain, and decay. In my view they don't adequately use what is available.

So the tubaphone, whyte ladyies and others like that, DO something to the air, thus the holes, scallops, trumpets and such to try to get some more out of a lam rim. Ask yourself what kind of finished edge to the bottom of the rim: bound, round, square or beveled. Then the resonator (standard pipe cap), no hyperbole, parabole, should let a tubby roll. Toot?

The openbacks were THE traditional banjo, Grandpa Jones played a resonator banjo, because he was a pro on stage. 3 hours later a flathead can weigh a lot.

I love Mark Johnson's music, it looks like Deering did a great job of meeting his specs.

Now use 1/8 x1/2 FLATBAR with a 90 degree corner, interference fit (tight), now you have a contact patch that is 13.25 square inches. Re orient the grain to a bias cut @ 45 degrees and you will increase the interaction and full use of the brass and wood as a singing member of the choir, greater than the sum.

Can't re orient the grain on a laminated rim? Well, yeah.

http://www.helixbanjos.com
(_)===='===::}

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Edited by - Helix on 11/01/2009 04:42:25

frianm - Posted - 11/01/2009:  05:41:58

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quote:

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I had the opposite question. I like the sound of my tubaphone better than a flathead ring and wondered how a tubaphone would sound in a resonator banjo for Bluegrass? I've love to hear one. I suspect I'd like it.

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Nearly 20 years ago I bought a Vega Tubaphone from Gruhn's, they sold it as an openback and gave me the flange plates and resonator in case I wanted them. I, of course, put it all together. I sold it again and wish I had not done so. However I could only afford one instrument and I was unsatisfied with the sound and moved on to a flat top, a Gibson, and never looked back until now. The sound was not what I liked but it is so long ago that memory is faulty. I would still say that it is not a good idea to use such a set up for bluegrass. On the other hand my favorite now is a 73 OME XX with its silverspun ring and multiply rim, next to that is my Baldwin/ODE model C. Maybe my ear and taste has changed! Anyway George Gruhn was right - the Tubaphone was better as an openback and I should have left it that way. Does wisdom make you wiser or more nostalgic?

http://missionmeanderings.wordpress.com/

frianm - Posted - 11/01/2009:  05:44:37

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BTW - I return to Peru in two weeks and am carrying a woody w/o resonator for the sake of my back. I might take a set of flanges and a resonator, just in case.

http://missionmeanderings.wordpress.com/

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Edited by - frianm on 11/01/2009 05:45:42

The Old Timer - Posted - 11/01/2009:  07:29:01

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VEGA made bluegrass banjos with Tubaphone rings all through the late 50s and 60s. They were called Pro and Earl Scruggs models. Admittedly they had a unique flange, but the tone ring was pretty much the same as in the old timey banjos.

A lot of people think they sound pretty good, although few think they match a Mastertone flat head.

The Old Timer

I can win the attention of most any girl, wherever I may roam -- But singing and playing on a banjo alone, won't work against a trombone! Uncle Dave

banjot - Posted - 11/01/2009:  07:43:43

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I've seen a couple of early Kyle Creed made banjos with flathead tone rings and Kevin Fore recently made Trish his wife one. If I wasn't up to my ears in banjo, I'd love to have one myself.

Tom Mylet

Cottonmouth - Posted - 11/01/2009:  08:54:51

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Thanks one and all for your comments. I have an 11" X 3/4" X 2-1/16", 3-ply maple open-back rim from a early '80s Stew-Mac kit. It originally was fitted with the "Mastertone-style" flat head 20-hole tone ring. I think I'll build this back up with a Fiberskyn head and see what sort of frailer it will make.

"Look upward; He IS coming back!"

"What happens in heaven, stays in heaven"

Emiel - Posted - 11/01/2009:  09:11:23

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I think that before Vega made Tubaphone resonator five-string banjos, they also made Tubaphone resonator tenor and plectrum banjos. The idea of a Tubaphone resonator banjos is quite old and has nothing to do, at least preceded bluegrass...

Cottinmouth: besides the Fiberskyn, also try a Five-Star top-frosted on that banjo...

Emiel

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emieldk/
http://www.bluerounders.com

uncle.fogey - Posted - 11/01/2009:  15:17:21

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In the 60s, Gibson made a flathead openback with a Mastertone tonering to compete with the Vega Pete Seeger that was popular with such musicians as Pete himself, The Kingston Trio, Tommy Makem, Bob Gibson, the Limeliters, etc. John Stewart, Dave Guard's replacement in the Kingston Trio had one for a brief period and it's pictured on the cover of "Album # 14". He went back to the Vega tubaphone relatively quickly.
It was called the RB 180 in the longneck version and the RB 175(?) in the regular length. This is not to be confused with another Gibson open back of the period that had no tonering.
It had the very thick rim typical of Mastertones and 24 brackets. I don't believe an awful lot of them were ever made, so they're now collectors' items.




A man wouldn't need many plastic heads in a lifetime.

millwheel - Posted - 11/03/2009:  12:52:02

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To: Ray 58- I have an Alvarez "Silver Princess" with a resonator and tubaphone-type tone ring. It sounds fine either way (w/ or w/o reso), as does my Vega Style 3.

Millwheel

Alpha Omicron - Posted - 11/04/2009:  14:21:06

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The Somerset S-1 has a JLS flathead tone ring. Made by E. Lowell Jacobs.