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xnavyguy - Posted - 10/30/2009: 10:33:23
Day before yesterday, I had a bottlecap banjo in for some modifications and setup, including the installation of railroad spikes to capo the 5th string. In the past, when I have installed spikes on mine and other banjos, I have tried to adhere to my friend Richie Dotson's suggestion that it is better to place the spikes halfway between the frets for two reasons....one, it is easier to place the string under the spike and two, it doesn't go out of tune as much as if the spike is placed closer to the fret as many have done in the past. This is the first time I have been bitten by this practice. After I installed the spikes, while playing the banjo capoed, in A, I was getting a buzz on the 5th string. What I had to do is move the spike closer to the fret to get rid of the buzz, when spiked. What must have got me on this one was that the frets are ever so slightly lower on the fretboard than those I have spiked previously. Now I understand why a lot of folks recommend placing the spikes closer to the frets. This photo shows the before and after.
Jerry
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance."
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/30/2009: 10:46:02
One of the reasons many spikes pull the banjo out of tune is because they are staggered so none are directly under the 5th string. I like that approach.
It forces you to adjust each time (but the adjustment is always identical so I get used to it) but it avoids the problem of buzzing if centered and the issue of having to force the string under if placed closer to the fret.
Everything you do costs something and it becomes a matter of choosing the best payoff.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
mike gregory - Posted - 10/30/2009: 10:47:15
As often as I have posted this, you kids just don't seem to understand.
So, here it is again:
"Nobody ever said spike driving was supposed to be easy!!!"
-J. Henry, Transportation Infrastructure Installation Consultant-
Dan Pennington - Posted - 10/30/2009: 12:27:35
I just put in spikes in a couple of necks and I used Frank Ford's recommendation of 3/8 in. behind the fret. Works for me.
Jerry - your after photo looks like my installation using 3/8.
Dan in Minneapolis
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing; if you can fake that, you've got it made."
Groucho Marx
5stringypsy - Posted - 10/30/2009: 13:21:45
besides assembly and set up, my extent in banjo lutherie (after a full staggering 9 months as an enthusiast and addicted student of this marvel of stringed instruments) has been reaming and installing 5th string tuners and installing spikes. I've read an awfull lot about it and read many different things, but constantly learning. So far I've installed the spike in the center of the fret space directly under the string and haven't had any issues. I fret the 5th constantly when I play. I was worried about if I did it like you're talkin about not havin enough space to fret it with. Now.. I'm a little dumb hehe and gotta be spoonfed sometime, but would it be ok to do the spike the 3/8ths like you're saying on the other side?? (3/8th's from the fret toward the headstock instead of the pot assembly)
Also, I must'v gotten some different spikes this time. I just got a new (used) banjo and it had a 5th capo, which got tossed immediatly and I got some spikes from a friend of mine. the heads are a little long and flat, not like what I've used before, and had a little , almost like tit from where it was made (poured maybe? ) I dunno how their made, on the top at the back part of the nail (the part that goes by the binding) so I filed it down a little on each one with no issue and been playin it a few weeks like this. Last night while playin, the guy I was playin for kept changin his mind about keys lol.. so I was switchin allot in keys and in a hurry got a pretty good little cut from one of the spikes. It hurt. got home and checked them and I did a good file job alright.. 3 of them are like little razor heads now, only took a swipe or two of that file to make them that sharp. Reckon I should remove them or tape up the fretboard and get a magnifyin glass and "fix" it .. hehe not tryin to hijack the thread, just kinda fits in  Thanks guys.
HIKE FASTER I hear a banjo...
xnavyguy - Posted - 10/30/2009: 14:13:37
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pennington
I just put in spikes in a couple of necks and I used Frank Ford's recommendation of 3/8 in. behind the fret. Works for me.
Jerry - your after photo looks like my installation using 3/8.
Dan in Minneapolis
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing; if you can fake that, you've got it made."
Groucho Marx
Dan, after this happened, I mentioned it to my friend Art who said he thought he had heard that somewhere around 1/3 to 40% behind the fret. After I patched the holes on these I went further back 1/3 of 1/2 which came out to 1/3 of the total distance between frets. One of my main reasons for putting them in the middle had to do with being able to avoid them with my fat fingers when fretting the 5th string while playing. Jerry "Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance."
Thor - Posted - 10/30/2009: 14:29:44
quote:
One of my main reasons for putting them in the middle had to do with being able to avoid them with my fat fingers when fretting the 5th string while playing.
Mine are directly in the middle... but my frets are high enough (or spikes are low enough) so that I can fret the fifth string cleanly with my fingertip directly on the spike. In other words, I don't need to avoid them.
saphine - Posted - 10/31/2009: 03:02:32
Ok folks, would someone please explain to an ignoramus such as myself what SPIKES are, what they do and why. Thanks from clueless newbie who wants to learn everything....someday!
Be who you are and happy, life's a party, go and have some fun.
mike gregory - Posted - 10/31/2009: 03:37:57
In this context, spikes are those tiny, L -shaped nails that model railroaders use, to hold the train tracks to the board.
The spikes are set into the fingerboard (as pictured above) to capo the 5th string, since the 5th string, which starts at the 5th fret, cannot be held down by a capo applied anywhere on the first four frets.
The string is tucked under the spike, and that holds it to the required note.
There ya go, m'dear.
Now you're good-looking AND well-informed.
=):{ )
Mike Gregory, Banjo Maker Infraordinaire
When I say my instruments are as good as anything Gibson or Martin ever made,
I mean MEL Gibson and DEAN Martin!
My banjos can be seen on my own website
http://littlebanjos.lunare.net
See me & my SQUARED EEL banjo on the Y'all tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97EfvhFgRBY
Mopick - Posted - 10/31/2009: 06:09:19
You did a good job of patching the holes. I see no trace of the previous holes.
I live in the mountains.....
The mountainous region of Central Florida.
Sugarloaf Mountain; 312 feet above sea level.
http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango...albumid=3256
Randy
justryin2play - Posted - 10/31/2009: 06:30:54
quote:
Originally posted by Mopick
You did a good job of patching the holes. I see no trace of the previous holes.
I live in the mountains.....
The mountainous region of Central Florida.
Sugarloaf Mountain; 312 feet above sea level.
http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango...albumid=3256
Randy
Sorry for the Hijack but, That stuck out to me also, one of the best repair jobs I've ever seen. Grain match and all. Way to go Jerry !!!
mike gregory - Posted - 10/31/2009: 07:20:12
I suspect he did it the most expensive way possible:
Ran out and bought a new banjo, of exactly the same make and model, and spiked THAT neck, since he knew that 40,000 people in 50 different nations would pass judgement on his skills as a repairman.
They have learn how to be sneaky, in the Navy, since a battleship is pretty hard to hide, on your average ocean.
xnavyguy - Posted - 10/31/2009: 08:54:45
quote:
Originally posted by Mopick
You did a good job of patching the holes. I see no trace of the previous holes.
I wondered when somebody was going to ask about the hole repairs. After removing the spikes, with my pocket knife, I made little dowels and stuffed them in the holes, using no tools. I then broke them off and used my fingernail to level them and blend them in with the grain texture to a point where I couldn't feel them. I stained the end of the plugs to match the fretboard and then re-oiled the entire fretboard so that everything would match. The whole process only took about 5 minutes. The toughest one I've had to do was on my NeuTuMi bottlecap shown in this photo. When I got it, the 5th string spikes were 3/16" rivets, near the frets. For this one, I fashioned rosewood dowels to fill the holes. If you look real close, you can see a little evidence of those huge rivet holes near the frets, especially the leftmost one.  Jerry After I made this post, I went downstairs and took my magnifying glass and a flashlight and looked at the repair of those bee-gast holes in the NeuTuMi pictured above. Turns out, they are visible, even without the magnifying glass. The just didn't show up well in the photo that I took. "Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance."
Edited by - xnavyguy on 10/31/2009 10:22:37
BigDawg - Posted - 10/31/2009: 11:43:49
Thanks Jerry, I too put spikes in my Reiter at 7 & 9 following Richie Dotson's location but the one at 9 always buzzed when I had it "capoed" at 7. My solution was to pull the spike at 9 and refuse to play in B or E. I guess I'll have to go back and try this now.
"When you want genuine music - music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whisky, go right through you like Brandreth's pills, ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pin-feather pimples on a picked goose - when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!" Mark Twain
steve davis - Posted - 10/31/2009: 12:01:23
When I put in spikes I take a couple of swipes with a little triangle file
in the spike's "armpit".
This creates a very slight groove that holds the string.
I also smooth the top of the spike with a file or dremel to get rid of
the ridges and sharp end cuts.
This also reduces the height of the spike a couple of thou.
I drill the hole a little short so the point goes tight in the neck wood.
When I get it close I fret the string on the fret just behind the spike.
At first it buzzes when fretted.I tap and check til it goes underneath,but
doesn't buzz the string when fretted.
ValleyBoy - Posted - 10/31/2009: 19:35:15
I just installed my first set of spikes today. I used Frank Ford's method, and it worked out perfectly. I can't believe I was so nervous about this task.
----------------------------
Nothing beats personal one-on-one instruction!
Learn to Play Bluegrass
Hensley's Bluegrass Music
http://www.bluegrasslessons.com/
Helix - Posted - 11/02/2009: 03:03:15
Hi Jerry, I use the midpoint as a guide, but try measuring since the frets are
different spaces apart, I'm just North of the halfway. I also use the 5th string as a straight edge, then loosen it and tuck it under the neck with the same pencil.
http://www.helixbanjos.com
(_)===='===::}
steve davis - Posted - 11/02/2009: 03:18:36
Just had a thought about spiked/fretted 5th string being sharp.
The taller the pip notch,the sharper the spiked note.
I like the 5th string resting directly on the 5th fret
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