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fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/28/2009: 08:31:17
I've always been glad to share what I have learned through the years, but never considered myself a teacher. That changed last night when I gave a new Hangout member his first clawhammer lesson.
I showed Paul Neher -- colneher on Banjo Hangout -- how to tune his banjo in open
G and we worked on the basic clawhammer motion. I gave him some exercies that I tabbed out for him, with a disclaimer about tab. (Let's not go into that, ok?)
Before I move back down South, it would be very satisfying for me to leave a clawhammer banjo player here in Fort Wayne, Ind., to infect the rest of the population. A clawhammer plague of sorts.
Anyway, Paul's gonna do just fine.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
Edited by - fretlessinfortwayne on 10/28/2009 08:38:16
Viper - Posted - 10/28/2009: 08:50:59
Yes, the Midwest could use such a pandemic. Good luck on your mission and to your student.
Cheers!
__________________________________________________________
Right way or wrong way, I just want to play the banjo SOME way.
ZEPP - Posted - 10/28/2009: 09:22:11
Just remember the basic clawhammer teaching rules:
1) Anything goes
2) Nothing can be defined.
3) There's only one "right way"
4) It isn't "clawhammer" unless you do it that right way.
5) "Less is more"
6) If "less is more," the "most" is "nothing"
7) There is no "good" or "bad"
8) Some things are better than others
Hope this helps. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.
Cheers,
ZEPP
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/28/2009: 09:29:40
ZEPP,
I am very pleased that you have responded to this post. I consider you and Dan Levenson the very best of teachers. When Paul left my home last night, I emailed him a link to a video that you made -- slow clawhammer -- with the camera shooting through a clear head. Very valuable to him and any beginning student.
I must admit, however, that your "basic clawhammer teaching rules" do leave me a bit muttled. LOL. Thanks again.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
Edited by - fretlessinfortwayne on 10/28/2009 09:31:05
J-Walk - Posted - 10/28/2009: 10:11:33
I didn't recognize you without the dreadlocks, Zepp.
Banjo75 - Posted - 10/28/2009: 10:44:56
Dean,
congrats on taking the step down the road of teaching... it's a thankless business that we are all pretty thankful for that there are people crazy enough to do it.
............................................................
I have sung in hobo jungles, and I have sung for the Rockefellers, and I am proud that I have never refused to sing for anybody. - Pete Seeger
WGE - Posted - 10/28/2009: 11:14:36
My goodness, Zepp is now channeling Gerry Garcia, who as we all know played old-time banjo. It even looks like his is missing something of his third finger on his right hand. Zepp's list sure sounds like something of which the Dead would approve, and I will add, be Grateful.
Edited by - WGE on 10/28/2009 14:30:10
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/28/2009: 11:15:24
Expounding on Zepp's platitudes: Because less is more, that means more is less.
What this means to the aspiring banjoist is that the more notes you play in a row, the less you have to worry about if any of them are correct.
That's also why you don't have to worry about being in tune.
The difference between frailing and clawhammer is important and nonexistent.
One hand frailing is what the Zen masters are talking about when they mention 'clapping.' After years of successful meditation on this koan, or with judicious use of self-medication to reach the proper psychic state, you will be able to turn on, tune up and drop thumb.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/28/2009: 11:28:39
It is apparent that some of us experienced perhaps too many mind-altering drugs from the 60s. Of course, this may be advantageous to us. Then again, it may not. Which brings me to the meaning of life ...
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
chip arnold - Posted - 10/28/2009: 12:11:54
This is the best thread I've read on the hangout in a long time :-)
Now about that tablature....
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
banjered - Posted - 10/28/2009: 17:17:51
"It is apparent that some of us experienced perhaps too many mind-altering drugs from the 60s. Of course, this may be advantageous to us. Then again, it may not. Which brings me to the meaning of life ..."
60s? Dunno? My license said I was born in '47. but the 60s? What happened? I can't remember? Why can't I remember? And philosophy - isn't that where two philosophers get together and argue whether they are really there or not? Now if I could just find my damn shoes..... TC
majikgator - Posted - 10/28/2009: 17:43:35
i remember the 60's there weren't a lot of people runnng around with long hair and doing crazy things, not many of us at all actually used to catch a lot of flack.It wasn't THAT long ago and already history has changed, it was probably on the order of 5 - 7% of the people around then that would resemble this stereotype that has mythologicaly come about, was interesting times though. (a little higher in parts of California maybe) Just like banjo players not so many, but noticed.
jk
Edited by - majikgator on 10/28/2009 17:44:27
Clawdan - Posted - 10/29/2009: 06:35:20
I am humbled and honored by you Dean. May you find it as much a path for the growth of your own playing as I have. Remember - be gentle but willing to be honestly brutal when and ONLY when necessary. Most of all...
Play nice  ,
Dan "Ain't no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.Clawdan.com
Now teaching Clawhammer Banjo and Old Time Fiddle at San Diego Old Time Music
Get started with Dan's Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications) THEN:
Come to Clawcamp! www.ClawCamp.com
Matt Buckley - Posted - 10/29/2009: 08:51:00
Several years ago I had a revelation regarding learning/teaching as an adult that I've found to be so very, very important. This thread got me thinking about all this again.
First, some brief background. 8 years classical string bass. 4 years piano. 15 years bluegrass banjo and guitar. All of this ages 6-to-30. Fast-forward to 1995, age 40, learning for the first time Highland pipes and various Scottish bellows pipes.
Learning as an adult, and learning when young, are very, very different tasks. Many otherwise fine instructors, having learned their instrument when young, are often clueless as to the physical and neurological limitations that adults must address when learning an instrument, clueless not because they are not intelligent or consciencious, but because they did not themselves learn as an adult and therefore cannot know what it's like.
So I've learned that it's not enough to stay "put this finger here and do that there". Before we even get that far we have to consider, literally, how, mechanically, we do the requested motion. Is the motion efficient? What is the exact position of hands/arms/fingers? How aware are the instructor and student of tension getting in the way of effective movement? Etc. Etc.
So, my experience is that, for all of us that might teach from time to time, especially when working with adults there's just so much more to address before even getting to bum-ditty.
I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience.
Cheers, Matt
Edited by - Matt Buckley on 10/29/2009 10:32:28
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/29/2009: 08:57:58
Dan,
I appreciate your wise counsel. You show great patience and kindness for those seeking to waste productive lives with banjo playing. I guess it was probably wrong of me then to rap Paul Neher's right hand with a ruler. It was something I learned from nuns as a young lad.
Paul, is the swelling going down?
And you're absolutely right, Dan. It aint no "bum-ditty." It is obviously a "ding-dingy." You got that, Paul?
Paul? Paul? Where did you go, Paul?
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
ZEPP - Posted - 10/29/2009: 09:43:19
Hey, Dean,
Thanks so much for your kind words. They are very much appreciated, despite my flippant response to your initial post! I trust you know that I am prepared to help you in any way I can. Sorry if I'm a bit slow here, but I'm still in Carmen's hospital room, and I have but limited opportunities to expound on banjo matters at the moment.
BTW, Mike, I certainly like your "the more notes you play in a row, the less you have to worry about if any of them are correct" extrapolation. Certainly describes my playing!
Cheers,
ZEPP
gdoc - Posted - 10/29/2009: 19:32:51
Don't know why, but back when I used to teach, (no, I'm not a professional teacher, but I can help people)....... I picked up my banjo "left handed" and tried to play... All the sudden I remembered what it was like when your first learning... try it sometime.. it will help you remember what your students are going thru.
gdoc
Stutts - Posted - 10/30/2009: 00:18:45
I haven't played banjo long enough to have a go teaching it but I've taught guitar off and on for over 20 yrs. A student I have at the moment is a real doozy. Been playing guitar for a few years but has absolutely no sense of rhythm.
How do you teach rhythm when the student is so sensitive to me even going there? I tried the 'how about tapping your foot?' but no way. I get the response 'I can't tap my foot and play at the same time". Were do I go from there?
This student is highly sensitive to any mention of rhythm or timing and gets REALLY upset at the mere mention of the subject. I hate to give up on a student but I might have to on this one which is a pity as technically the student is quite good and just needs to learn some decent timing to bring it all together. Any suggestions? Singing and hand clapping [only] maybe?
I've tried playing along with my banjo or guitar on some simple tunes but the student just goes off on a timing tangent and I'm all over the place trying to stay with their rhythm. If I set the rhythm the student is off all over the place!
Anyone else ever have this sort of problem with a student [ a VERY sensitive female] ?
Edited by - Stutts on 10/30/2009 00:42:21
jasper - Posted - 10/30/2009: 01:24:42
I know i'm probably Way out there but tell your student that ifn they can't hold time, they won't be able to play ANY tune correctly, Period.! Timing is everything, technique is great but the timing holds everything together.You can be a simple beginner and sound wonderful if your on time. My sister has the same trouble with her fiddlin, plays great tone and licks, but her timing is BAD!!. Kills me to play with her, I try than she misses all the beats and throws me off and before ya know it i'm messin up tryin to stay with her and the tune. Tell your student flat out, learn the timing or get another hobby!
Relax,grab your Banjo, have a Homebrew.
jasper - Posted - 10/30/2009: 01:26:55
Hey Dean, see ya at Andi's Pumpkin Patch? Bringin any Pumpkin Pie?
Relax,grab your Banjo, have a Homebrew.
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/30/2009: 05:26:46
Hey, Guy. Good to hear from you. Yes, I plan to be at Andi's next week. May not be bringing my favorite banjo -- Jason Burns No. 10 -- as the non-plated brass no-knot tailpiece unexpectedly snapped in two. New tailpiece on the way, but it may not arrive in time. The "pie" is currently cooking. Good batch if I do say so myself.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
Edited by - fretlessinfortwayne on 10/30/2009 07:56:11
tfaux - Posted - 10/30/2009: 07:02:22
quote:
Originally posted by Stutts
technically the student is quite good and just needs to learn some decent timing to bring it all together. Any suggestions? Singing and hand clapping [only] maybe?
2¢ worth: Even if someone can't feel the rhythm they can still learn to count it. If you use written notation in your lessons have her clap the rhythm before she ever tries playing any notes. You can also have her speak out the rhythm ("one and two -- -- and four and") etc. If you haven't used notation it may be worth getting a beginner guitar-reading book. They usually start off with developing a habit of counting. The advantage of working with written music is that you can see where the beats are, even if you can't feel them. If you don't use written music, switch to something rhythmically simpler. When she gets that, move to something slightly more complicated. When I studied west African drumming my teacher stepped on my foot on the beat. That worked. Tom
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/30/2009: 07:53:37
Thanks all who share their teaching methods and advice. (I still prefer Zepp's list.) I'll continue to abuse poor Paul with a ruler until he gets this crazy notion of banjo playing out of his head. Or until he becomes a banjo player.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
Edited by - fretlessinfortwayne on 10/30/2009 07:58:58
Matt Buckley - Posted - 10/30/2009: 11:33:00
quote:
Originally posted by jasper
Timing is everything, technique is great but the timing holds everything together.
True. But with some folks, poor technique is much of, or at least part of, the timing problem. A few months ago, I solved what had been an annoying inefficiency regarding the use of my thumb. Once I made the small, but important, adjustment, fluidity, and therefore timing, improved significantly. I would put timing and technique on equal footing. Cheers, Matt
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/30/2009: 12:22:49
For the timing issue (a different question than the original), have the student STRUM If You're Happy and You Know It.
Don't play it with him.
Tell him he's got to get the first line down strumming starting in G (open) then switching to D [0230] on the word "hands."
I have folks with timing issues prove to me they can play that song.
I don't care if you don't want to learn to strum; I want to hear you do it once correctly before we move on. If it takes longer than 30 seconds to get correct, moving on to rolls with the righthand only compounds the error. Metronomes only compound it further.
I let students go who refuse. They aren't going to learn and I refuse to waste my time on them. I find it far more frustrating and stressful than they do and it ain't worth it to me.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
Stutts - Posted - 10/30/2009: 13:09:17
quote:
Originally posted by minstrelmike
For the timing issue (a different question than the original), have the student STRUM If You're Happy and You Know It.
Don't play it with him.
Tell him he's got to get the first line down strumming starting in G (open) then switching to D [0230] on the word "hands."
I have folks with timing issues prove to me they can play that song.
I don't care if you don't want to learn to strum; I want to hear you do it once correctly before we move on. If it takes longer than 30 seconds to get correct, moving on to rolls with the righthand only compounds the error. Metronomes only compound it further.
I let students go who refuse. They aren't going to learn and I refuse to waste my time on them. I find it far more frustrating and stressful than they do and it ain't worth it to me.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
Yeah, good advice there. Back to the basic strum to get the timing right ...before we move on!
strokestyle - Posted - 11/10/2009: 14:54:15
Hi Dean - I was in southern MO over this past weekend and was able to contaminate two people with my banjo. I ended up giving them lessons (my first time giving lesson to). The sessions went quite well for beginners and one of my students stopped in the next day gave me a big hug and called me his "Hammerhead Mentor". Thought you might like that.
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