erstokke - Posted - 10/27/2009:  16:09:55

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I discussed the song Soldiers Joy with good friend of mine, Ånon Egeland, who is teaching folk music at a Norwegian University. He told me that the oldest hand written version of this tune in Norway is from 1793, and is written for keyboard (clavichord or cembalo). It was called "Le Salut Royal". The first printed version of this tune is probably from Scotland around 1760. It is a tune that is known in a lot of countries.

In Norway, the tune has lyrics which is about brewing beer. In earlier days there was a law that every farm had to brew their own beer. The words are something like this (my translation):

At (the name of your farm here) they make the very best beer
It will shake up your stomach like a horse’s foal
And spin around in your head like a bumblebee
And out through your *ss like a gunshot

Pretty heavy stuff - and very far from "La Salute Royal". Or maybe the last line is what the salute is all about.

There are other lyrics as well, and the lyrics are only for the first part of the melody.




My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway

jojo25 - Posted - 10/27/2009:  17:27:53

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Jan,

please...bless us with all the lyrics you know....assuming they are fit for a family friendly site of course

I learned a whole set (at least half of which I've forgotten...think I got them written down somewhere)...all relating to the American Revolutionary War

all I know of the origins from this side of the pond is that the tune was a reel called "King's Head"....so at least there is some thread of connection there

this OT music we love really is far more international than many people give it credit for!! I, for one, love making these links back across the pond...or should I say "a" pond?

Don't forget to play all of the quasihemidemisemiquavers!!
Drop thumbs, not bombs

Joe

pastorharry - Posted - 10/27/2009:  17:57:13

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I hear tell Soldier's joy became popular in the Civil War camps, and that the term "soldier's joy" was another title for the moraphine that was given to a wounded soldier. BTW; In a recent Gillian Welch song she sings of their being too much "soldier's Joy" in Nashville, which I believe means dope, not old time music. "Too much beer and wiskey to ever be employed and when I got to Nashville there was too much soldier's joy". hmmm...

D.W. - Posted - 10/27/2009:  18:45:56

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I've never known the lyrics to Soldiers joy, but I love the Norwegian version of them!!! I actually laughed out loud! Feel free to share the Norwegian versions of any of the songs you know and if they aren't family friendly - Private Message me with them. I can always use a good chuckle and grin!

Regards,
dw.

----------------------------------------------
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
- Fran, "Strictly Ballroom" (1992)

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 10/27/2009:  19:12:55

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The Skillet Likkers sing it as "15 cents for the morphine, 25 cents for the beer, 15 cents for the morphine, all for the Soldiers Joy." Or words to that effect. Of course, this is a much newer version, no telling how much it changed from the earlier versions. I've heard people explain "Soldiers Joy " as a reference to payday, there is some merit to that idea. I've also heard it claimed that it was written by an Irish soldier locked in an English prison. As tha story goes, he fiddled the tune, was heard by the King, and pardoned. I don't know if that story has any more basis in fact than the other one. I was unaware of the Norwegian version(s) of the song. I like this song sleuthing stuff!
Paul

"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

banjothumper5 - Posted - 10/27/2009:  22:43:41

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I`ve heard the idea of paday being Soldier` Joy. I have even heard it called Payday a couple times.

Allen
Check out my music blog at www.allensarchiveofearlyoldc....blogspot.com

Bisbonian - Posted - 10/27/2009:  23:14:40

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Guy Clark's (admittedly more modern) take on the lyrics:

First I thought a snake had got me it happened dreadful quick
T’was a bullet bit my leg, right off I got sick
I came to in a wagon load of ten more wounded men
Five was dead by the time we reached that bloody tent

Gimme some of that Soldier’s Joy, you know what I mean
I don’t want to hurt no more my leg is turnin’ green

The doctor came and looked at me and this is what he said
Your dancin’ days are done, son, it’s a wonder you ain’t dead
Then he went to work with a carvin’ knife sweat fell from his brow
‘Bout killed me tryin’ to save my life when he cut that lead ball out

Give me some of that Soldier’s Joy, ain’t you got no more
Hand me down my walkin’ cane I ain’t cut out for war

Red blood run right through my veins run all over the floor
Run right down his apron strings like a river out the door
He handed me a bottle and said, son drink deep as you can
He turned away then he turned right back with a hacksaw in his hand

Gimme some of that Soldier’s Joy you know what I like
Bear down on that fiddle boys just like Saturday night

Gimme some of that Soldier’s Joy you know what I crave
I’ll be hittin’ that Soldier’s Joy til I’m in my grave

"When Banjos are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos."

janolov - Posted - 10/28/2009:  00:50:15

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The tune is known by old Swedish folk musicians. It has been called "Engelska" (= English Dance).

The Fiddler's Companion (http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SO_SOR.htm) reports the following

quote:

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Bayard (1981) dates it to "at least" the latter part of the 18th century, citing a version that has become standard in James Aird's 1778 collection (vol. 1, No. 109) and Skillern's 1780 collection (pg. 21). London publishers Longman and Broderip included it in their Entire New and Compleat Instructions for the Fife in 1785. Kate Van Winkler Keller (1992) says that the hornpipe “Soldier’s Joy” appeared with a song in London in about 1760. John Glen (1891) and Francis Collinson (1966) maintain the first appearance in print of this tune is in Joshua Campbell's 1778 A Collection of the Newest and Best Reels and Minuets with improvements. It has been attributed to Campbell himself but Collinson notes it is hardly likely as it is a well known folk dance tune in other countries of Europe. There is also a dance by the same name which is "one of the earliest dances recorded in England, but no date of origin has been established. It is still done in Girton Village as part of a festival dance. The tune is also well known in Ireland" (Linscott, 1939). The melody was used in North#8209;West England morris dance tradition for a polka step, and also is to be found in the Cotswold morris tradition where it appears as "The Morris Reel," collected from the village of Headington, Oxfordshire. Scots national poet Robert Burns set some verses to the tune which were published in his Merry Muses of Caledonia. In the first song of Burns' cantata, The Jolly Beggars, by the soldier, is to the tune of “Soldier's Joy.” Early versions of "Soldier's Joy" can be traced to a Scottish source as far back as 1781; variants can be found in Scandinavia, the French Alps, and Newfoundland (Linda Burman#8209;Hall, "Southern American Folk Fiddle Styles," Ethnomusicology, vol. 19, #1, Jan. 1975). Jean-Paul Carton identifies a version of “Soldier’s Joy” in the tablature manuscript of French fiddler Pierre Martin, dating from around 1880. He says: “I find (Martin’s) version of Soldier’s Joy—simply referred to as Été [a type of dance], tab #132—surprisingly close to some of the American versions, including the bowing, which is indicated in the tab.” [Reference: Claude Ribouillault, Violon du Poitou, Répertoire de danses en tablatures (Cahier de Pierre Martin, vers 1880), UPCP-Métive, Les Cahiers du CERDO No. 1, CPCP-Métive: 2003].

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Swedish folklorist Jonas Liljestrom writes to say that Danish folk dance researcher Per Sørensen has traced the history of “Soldier’s Joy” in Denmark and Scandinavia, and has written that it can be found in the third volume of Rutherford's Compleat Collection of two hundred of the most Celebrated Country Dances, Both Old and New, published in Scotland circa 1756. Sørensen’s article includes a transcription of the Rutherford version, nearly identical to the usual melody, and indicates the “Soldier’s Joy” title was used by Rutherford and that it was published with dance directions. Liljestrom cites: Sørensen, Per: "Dansens og musikkens rødder 42: Hornfiffen fra Randers 2.del" ("The Roots of the dance and music part 42: The Randers Hornpipe part 2"), (Published in "Hjemstavnsliv" issue nr. 11, 1999. The magazine is issued by "Landsforeningen Danske Folkedansere" ["National Association of Danish Folk Dancers"] in association with Danske Folkedanseres Spillemandskreds ["Danish Folkdancers' Association of Fiddlers"].)

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In America the melody is ubiquitous. Early printings of the melody are in Benjamin and Joseph Carr’s Evening Amusement (Philadelphia, 1796), Joshua Cushing’s Fifer’s Companion (Salem, Mass., 1804) and Daniel Steele’s New and Compleat Preceptor for the Flute (Albany, 1815). It was cited as having commonly been played for country dances in Orange County, New York, in the 1930's (Lettie Osborn, New York Folklore Quarterly), and Bronner (1987) confirms it was a popular piece at New York square dances in the early 20th century. The title appears in a repertoire list of Norway, Maine, fiddler Mellie Dunham (the elderly Dunahm {b. 1853} was Henry Ford's champion fiddler in the late 1920's). Musicologist Charles Wolfe (1982) says it was popular with Kentucky fiddlers. The tune was recorded for the Library of Congress by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph, from the playing of Ozark Mountain fiddlers in the early 1940's, and, for the same institution by Herbert Halpert in 1939 from the playing of Mississippi fiddlers John Hatcher, W.E. Claunch and Stephen B. Tucker. “Soldier’s Joy” is one of ‘100 essential Missouri tunes’ listed by Missouri fiddler Charlie Walden. It was also recorded by legendary Galax fiddler Emmett Lundy, and is listed as one of the tunes played at a fiddlers' convention at the Pike County Fairgrounds, Alabama (as recorded in the Troy Herald of July 6, 1926) {Cauthen, 1990}. Arizona fiddler Kenner C. Kartchner said: "Every fiddler plays this. Some not so good" (Shumway). Howe (c. 1867) and Burchenal (1918) print a New England contra dances of the same name with the tune. Tommy Jarrell, the influential fiddler from Mt. Airy, North Carolina, told Peter Anick in 1982 that it was a tune he learned in the early 1920's when he first began learning the fiddle, at which time it was known as "I Love Somebody" in his region. Soon after it was known in Mt. Airy as "Soldier's Joy" and, after World War II, as "Payday in the Army." Another North Carolina fiddler, African-American Joe Thompson, played the tune in CFgd tuning. Gerald Milnes (1999, pg. 12) remarks that tune origins were of significant value to West Virginia musicians who often tried to trace tunes to original sources. It was the first tune learned by Randolph County, W.Va., fiddler Woody Simmons (b. 1911). Braxton County fiddler Melvin Wine (1909-1999), says Milnes, used family lore to attribute the tune to his great-grandfather, Smithy Wine, of Civil War era. Smithy, it seems, had been detained by the Confederates in Richmond under charges of aiding Union soldiers. Although imprisoned, his captors found out he was a fiddler and made him play for a dance, and Smithy later associated the tune with this incident, calling it “Soldier’s Joy.” For further information see Bayard's (1944) extensive note on this tune and tune family under "The King's Head." During a Senate campaign in the 1960's the piece was played to crowds by Albert Gore Sr., the fiddling father of the Vice President during the Clinton administration (Wolfe, 1997).

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Jan-Olov

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Edited by - janolov on 10/28/2009 00:55:41

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/28/2009:  08:18:02

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I heard Soldier's Joy was played on the Mayflower and that it was written in the 14th century but I don't know if that is definite.

I tell first grade classes it was the number one hit of 1342 but then I say I don't know that fer sure.

Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

erstokke - Posted - 10/28/2009:  09:53:57

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It certainly has been around for several hundred years, and it is still popular.

I find it very interesting to see how folk music travel - just like folks.

Sometimes people seems to think that countries were very isolated in the old days. But that is not true. The Norwegians and the other Scandinavians traveled very far in the viking age. There are graves in Norway containing coins from the roman empire.


My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway

howbah - Posted - 10/28/2009:  09:58:49

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You can figure out the original meaning of "soldier's joy" from the alternate titles "Payday in the Army" and "The King's Head" (i.e. as shown on all coins of the realm).

Back in the 18th century and earlier, military service was one of the few jobs where a working stiff could count on a steady guaranteed cash wage. (The "steady" and "guaranteed" parts might vary depending on how the king was doing at that point in time ... but paying the army was a pretty high priority for obvious reasons.)

erstokke - Posted - 10/28/2009:  10:04:09

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It certainly has been around for several hundred years, and it is still popular.

I find it very interesting to see how folk music travel - just like folks.

Sometimes people seems to think that countries were very isolated in the old days. But that is not true. The Norwegians and the other Scandinavians traveled very far in the viking age. There are graves in Norway containing coins from the roman empire.


My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway

Uke of Hazzard - Posted - 10/28/2009:  10:10:13

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Great post Jan Erik, keep the lyrics coming

Now, if I could only learn how to sing AND play the banjo.....hmmm

unclekurty - Posted - 10/28/2009:  12:49:14

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I always though it was an ode to onanism.

olbap - Posted - 10/30/2009:  14:35:01

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Well. I'm pleased to noticed that may this song came from France.

quote:

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Early versions of "Soldier's Joy" can be traced to a Scottish source as far back as 1781; variants can be found in Scandinavia, the French Alps, and Newfoundland (Linda Burman#8209;Hall, "Southern American Folk Fiddle Styles," Ethnomusicology, vol. 19, #1, Jan. 1975). Jean-Paul Carton identifies a version of “Soldier’s Joy” in the tablature manuscript of French fiddler Pierre Martin, dating from around 1880. He says: “I find (Martin’s) version of Soldier’s Joy—simply referred to as Été [a type of dance], tab #132—surprisingly close to some of the American versions, including the bowing, which is indicated in the tab.” [Reference: Claude Ribouillault, Violon du Poitou, Répertoire de danses en tablatures (Cahier de Pierre Martin, vers 1880), UPCP-Métive, Les Cahiers du CERDO No. 1, CPCP-Métive: 2003].

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By the way "Le salut royal" and King's head could have the same meaning ! Well this is the french revolution...





Ol'Bap
http://www.oldtime.fr
http://www.areyouagile.com

dustinTN - Posted - 10/31/2009:  08:09:30

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quote:

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Originally posted by pastorharry

I hear tell Soldier's joy became popular in the Civil War camps, and that the term "soldier's joy" was another title for the moraphine that was given to a wounded soldier. BTW; In a recent Gillian Welch song she sings of their being too much "soldier's Joy" in Nashville, which I believe means dope, not old time music. "Too much beer and wiskey to ever be employed and when I got to Nashville there was too much soldier's joy". hmmm...

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I've wondered about this, too, pastorharry. I actually thought those lyrics might have been referring to herself (or the song's character/narrator) having trouble with drug abuse. There is also the song My Morphine which seems to be about a soldier getting hooked by the "mistress" of morphine. I believe there are references in other songs too to struggles with addiction, so I wonder if Welch or David Rawlings have a history of some sort with serious drug abuse (not necessarily themselves being the users - possibly friends or family.)

Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn [or your banjo]. ~Charlie Parker