jerrylee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  12:39:40

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As some of you might be aware I have been asking the question is an open back right for playing bluegrass, your answers have been no it should be a resonator.

Have been back to Eagle Music UK again and Mr Steve Noon now tells me "A banjo is just a banjo"

Your thoughts and comments welcome.

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Edited by - jerrylee on 10/24/2009 13:05:47

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/24/2009:  12:44:21

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Not if you want to be heard in a band. I'm surprised someone with his experience would say that. If it were true, we'd all be playing the cheapest Asian aluminum pot instruments we could buy--and that would be all his shop sold.

Bill

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Edited by - Bill Rogers on 10/24/2009 12:46:14

RobotNeil - Posted - 10/24/2009:  12:51:02

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Translation: "Just buy what I have on the shelf..."

jerrylee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:05:17

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Hi Bill, I do not quote people incorrectly, he sent it to me in a letter sent SPECIAL DELIVERY, your comment was exactly my response to him.

Dustyone - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:08:07

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Hi
It's your Banjo ! play what ever you like!! ....a lot of people ask ask this guestion ??? I guess some folks just need some support .

CosmicMaskedAvenger - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:22:35

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bluegrass is a style...you can play it on an open back or a resonator banjo.


A resonator banjo just sounds a little different, and is what is commonly used to play bluegrass.

Deering Sierra
Deering Goodtime

jerrylee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:22:43

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Hi Dusty, Went to a top banjo dealer to some get good advice and I did not get it from one of Deering banjo's top sellers, I could have bought a Chinese banjo and known no difference, I asked for a banjo to play bluegrass, money was not an object, seem like they where just shifting boxes.

beegee - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:24:06

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It's kinda like playing ice hockey in figure skatese or figure skating in hockey skates. They both involve steel blades on ice, but they work better in the proper venue. Bluegrass pickers like resonator banjos for the added forward-directed volume. Old time pickers seem to prefer a quieter or plunkier sound of openbacks. Resonator banjos were popular in 20's-30's jazz bands because they were competing with horns and drums and needed the extra volume.

__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

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Edited by - beegee on 10/24/2009 14:03:53

CG - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:31:45

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I have always found Steve Noon to be very knowledgeable and passionate about banjos and willing to give advice about different types of banjos. His stock of banjos is superb from top end downwards.

=====
Clive
Stay nice!

axsis - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:35:16

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JerryLee...........see what you think.......next time in a store strum an open back against a wall or glass door,then try a resonator model.......case closed. As Beegee says above.......you need to be heard when you take your lead and not lost "in the mix"

Cheers!
Don

Dustyone - Posted - 10/24/2009:  13:36:17

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quote:

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Originally posted by jerrylee

Hi Dusty, Went to a top banjo dealer to some get good advice and I did not get it from one of Deering banjo's top sellers, I could have bought a Chinese banjo and known no difference, I asked for a banjo to play bluegrass, money was not an object, seem like they where just shifting boxes.

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Now I get It, and you say these people couldn't give you a direct answer !
If that was me I don't think I'd buy a banjo there, but to answer your question ....
most folks use resonator banjo's to play bluegrass,
Cheers.

Ronnie - Posted - 10/24/2009:  18:22:47

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Most do, some don't. An old open back Vega with a tubaphone tone ring could hold its own with a bluegrass group.

www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 10/24/2009:  21:40:12

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If you plan to play in a band with several other instruments, you may find you need the volume of a resonator banjo. For learning purposes, and playing alone, you probably won't need the extra volume. For learning to play, either instrument will do. The real need for volume is frequently addressed with amplification anymore. Nearly all of us chose our 2nd and subsequent banjoes for the sound qualities we were looking for. At this point, it becomes a very personal difference, not well addressed by a community. (A camel has the lips of a rabbit, strange feet, and those humps. It's a horse designed by a committee.) For learning, your Goodtime will do the job for a long time to come. When you start hearing other players' banjoes, and decide you want a different sound than what you're getting, or volume becomes an issue, let your ears decide what you want in your next banjo. Your choice has to please your ears and hands, (and perhaps your wifes budget ideas.)
You will find that most Bluegrass players use resonator banjoes. And you may want to go that direction later as well. But wait untill you can play enough songs to give your ears a good workout on any new banjo you consider. Save up the cash for the one banjo that won't let you go home without it. It's been my experience that most musicians will defend their chosen instrument as if it was the only logical purchase there could be. And it was- for the one person making that purchase. But we all have our own opinions as to the best sounding instrument. And our own financial constraints to deal with.
Paul

"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

Brett - Posted - 10/25/2009:  07:09:40

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a resonator also contributes to the response rate of the notes.

Brisco Darlin' "man can get a lot of tones out of a jug"

mybote - Posted - 10/25/2009:  07:43:57

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If a banjo is just a banjo, nobody would be afflicted with Banjo Aquisition Syndrome.

mike gregory - Posted - 10/25/2009:  07:46:25

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mygosh mybote myeyes have been opened.
I think you have posted the primary proof that a banjo is never just a banjo.

maryzcox - Posted - 10/25/2009:  19:18:30

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A banjo is not just a banjo. Each has a distinct personality, tone, appearance. A banjo is more like a good dog.
There are even differences between the same model from the same factory.
One could be put together by an assembly worker who could care less--another may be assembled with great care by a worker who just loves banjos and the look and feel of the wood and inlay.
Then, of course, custom, and banjos made by individual buidlers have a little of the heart and soul of the builder in them--which gives them the energy of life.

Order a nice banjo from a builder you would like to know as a person--and you'll get a banjo that you will love for many years.
Best wishes,
Mary Z. Cox

www.maryzcox.com
If you suspect you need a new banjo--you do. Trust your musical instincts. If a banjo calls to you to buy it, don't fight destiny. It was meant to be. :)
http://banjoquest.blogspot.com

Field videos of banjoists, banjos, tunes, and banjos in locations you may or may not have seen or heard before :)

Goldenera - Posted - 10/26/2009:  04:38:35

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I teach Banjo in Wakefield West Yorkshire and Know the all Eagle guys very well. All my pupils buy their banjos, Books and Accessories there and are always looked after. They are without doubt the number one banjo dealers in Europe and I don’t believe for a moment that Steve or any member of the superb and experienced staff for that matter would be so dismissive of a customer.
Let’s face it they wouldn’t be where they are now if this was the case.
If in any further doubt, check out their customer testimonial page.

With regard to a banjo being just a banjo as I stated on Jerry’s previous post on this subject, I would recommend either as you can learn Bluegrass on any five string banjo open back or resonator. As a beginner, you can really do no better than a Deering Goodtime banjo. The open back can easily be converted to a resonator banjo once you've got up to speed.

With regard to the comment made by ROBOTNEIL
Translation: "Just buy what I have on the shelf..."
They always have the full range of Deering goodtime banjos in stock or at least when I have been there this has been the case.

jerrylee - Posted - 10/26/2009:  13:54:00

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Hi Goldenera Do you really think they would put a bad comment on their website???

You still have not answered the question Is a banjo a banjo wether it be open back or resonator or £10.00 or £10.000.00???

mike gregory - Posted - 10/26/2009:  15:40:08

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mybote answered it.
Did you skip his post?

mybote - Posted - 10/26/2009:  16:25:30

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Thanks for the reply, Mike. As a matter of fact, I am saving money for another aquisition as we speak.

Caress, gently, the elegant neck of the "Huber Lexington"........Inhale the smell of excitement. ................... [just another banjo?].................I think not.

Daveasti - Posted - 10/26/2009:  18:03:57

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Yeah, a banjo is just a banjo. Just like a car is just a car. A Dodge Neon and a Porsche 911 are pretty much the same thing...four tires and a steering wheel, what more do you want?

mike gregory - Posted - 10/26/2009:  19:12:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tweak

Yeah, a banjo is just a banjo. Just like a car is just a car. A Dodge Neon and a Porsche 911 are pretty much the same thing...four tires and a steering wheel, what more do you want?

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Either a horn, or an electric finger, for signalling other drivers.

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 10/26/2009:  20:06:29

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There are really two classes of banjo.
1) Poorly set -up instruments that fight your hands and frustrate your attempts to learn. Many times, these are cheaper banjoes that were built with an eye to speed of production. In the hands of a dedicated store keeper, these can often be set up to play very well. Some stores would not do this until after the sale, and would charge extra for the work. And may have to send it out to someone capable of doing the job.
2) Other than above.
Now, this is a gross over-simplification for purpose of illustration. My point here is to clarify the original issue, "Is a banjo just a banjo?" As dedicated banjo enthusiasts, very few of us will freely admit that yes, a banjo is just a banjo. My banjo is a time machine: Feed it the right songs and it transports me to the 1920's 1860's, 1770's etc. It may take me to other lands, as well. Cathy Moore lets her banjo take here to a lot of lands I can't find on mine, so maybe mine needs a different map. What I hear in your question is, "Do I need a special banjo to get where I want to go?" My answer is no, I don't believe you do. You need a banjo that you are comfortabe riding in for the trip you plan to take. The $50 cars I drove for so many years were not ones I was comfortable taking on a long trip. If you lears to play on your Chevy/Toyota/Fiat banjo, and later decide you want the bells & whistles of a Maserati banjo, so be it. A great many of us have upgraded from our "Transportation Specials" over the years. And some have a stable of fine banjoes to choose from. This will come down to your preferences in sound qualities. I can readily understand having multiple banjoes that sound quite diferent, and if economics wasn't an issue, I would have at least 2 more than what I have now. But the one I have does the job of all the ones I would like to add to my stable.
So, in one sense, the answer is "Yes, a banjo is just a banjo." But in a very real sense, the answer is no, because what I want may not be what someone else wants. Reading posts on BHO has shown me that we are all fiercely loyal to what we have chosen as our favorite. But no one make or model is everyone's choice. There's no one, universal banjo. Don't let our loyalties and hotheaded defese of our pets banjoes stop you from enjoying what you have or what you aquire in the future.
Paul

"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

Hedge Hog - Posted - 10/27/2009:  09:27:41

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Now that was a beautiful post, thank you for it.....

Yours along with several others have been very specific and well written, but I get the impression that we either aren't saying what the fellow wants to hear or he simply isn't hearing what we are trying to say.

This is my answer to this post. Yes, a 5 string banjo is a 5 string banjo. They are all basically laid out the same way. So, if you want to buy a stick and a drum or a gold incrusted work of art feel free to have at it. You fingers won't know the difference between any decently set-up 5 string banjo. All the notes are there on both extreme examples. Yes, I know that's an over simplification. However you can't fool your ears. Simply stated an open back banjo sounds different from a resonator banjo as does a wood tone ring banjo from a full metal tone ring banjo. No sound is any more correct than another, it's up to you to decide what your ears like. So there it is, a banjo is a banjo, but a banjo isn't every banjo. In the long run there's a very good reason for all banjo configurations, you need to find the one that suites you best.

...... I believe the response you posted was taken out of context, no knowledgeable banjo retailer would say that all banjos are the same. That is unless they were backed into a corner and that answer was the only way out.


MJM
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.

- open the window and let the angels in ............

- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers

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Edited by - Hedge Hog on 10/27/2009 09:29:28

Ian_banjo - Posted - 10/27/2009:  10:47:55

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I am not certain whether or not Eagle "are without doubt the number one banjo dealers in Europe", as Goldenera suggests. I was in Eagle's showroom last week and I have also visited Andybanjo several times. Unfortunately, Jerry, in Devon, you are a long way from both S Yorkshire and Kent. Having seen both shops, my preference would be for Andy, who is a banjo specialist. Eagle sell most acoustic string instruments. If you want to see what Andy thinks about different types of banjo and whether or not "a banjo is just a banjo", take a look at http://www.andybanjo.com/faq_3.htm on Andy's web site.

Ian Quayle

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 10/27/2009:  19:42:02

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jerrylee, has any of this answered your question? If you get us started, we may wax poetic, until we either confuse or bore you. It may be possible to add a resonator to your Goodtime. Have you consulted with the dealer you bought it from, or directly with Deering?
Paul

"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

Hedge Hog - Posted - 10/28/2009:  09:55:53

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Now there's a twist I hadn't considered. A resonator can be added to most any banjo and it will sound more bluegrass like. Different tone ring types will vary the sound as will different resonator configurations though.

MJM
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.

- open the window and let the angels in ............

- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers

mike gregory - Posted - 10/28/2009:  11:49:51

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quote:

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Originally posted by rendesvous1840

jerrylee, has any of this answered your question? If you get us started, we may wax poetic, until we either confuse or bore you. It may be possible to add a resonator to your Goodtime. Have you consulted with the dealer you bought it from, or directly with Deering?
Paul

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I highly recommend a citrus-scented, carnuba-based wax, to keep you poets shining like new.

Axeman79 - Posted - 10/28/2009:  12:36:34

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I think it's a rhetorical answer to a question about what is a banjo. Of course, a banjo is just a banjo...because it's not a guitar or a dog. A banjo is just a banjo. Within that framework, there are different types of banjos and they do things differently based on who made them and what they made them from.

I say a banjo is just a banjo and if you spray paint it orange and put icing on it, it's still a banjo. If you take it apart, its a banjo in pieces.

Axeman

If the minimum wasn't good enough...it wouldn't be the minimum.

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 10/28/2009:  15:45:32

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I tried waxing my poetry once, in Junior High School. But if you polish doggy-doo, it's still doggy-doo!
Paul

"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/

Goldenera - Posted - 10/29/2009:  10:02:57

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Hi banjo hangout,

In reply to the post from "Ian Banjo" RE: comments about Eagle music I'd have to reiterate that they are without doubt the biggest banjo dealer in Europe and can not be dismissed in such a casual fashion.
Now I would have to concede that Andy does carry a lot of Far eastern manufactured banjos and parts, arguably the most of any other banjo retailer in the world.
The question however must then be asked how many other banjo sellers out side the US have more than a couple of £1000 + banjos in stock at any one time? not many I know, believe me I do the rounds on a regular basis.
I have on many occasions taken pupils to Eagle Music Shop to see Steve Noon or Tim Howard to buy a Quality USA made banjo (alright then a Deering). They have always had over 20 USA manufactured IN STOCK including Deering, Nechville and a couple of used Gibson's as well as over 30+ far eastern models on the shop floor alone.
I don't see one USA manufactured banjo on Andy's site?
Now I have to admit the Eagle Boys & Girls are old friends of mine so I am definitely biased but on a less personal front I won't stand by and allow a reputable solid business to be called in to question in such a manner.
Seeing as Ian pasted a link to Andy's banjos in his post I will now do the same for the "BIG BIRD"
http://www.eaglemusicshop.com/
Best wishes all
Bob Bolas (Golden Era)

stevenoon - Posted - 10/30/2009:  07:05:30

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Steve Noon …Owner of Eagle Music Shop (UK) writes:-
Being proud as the worlds No.1 dealership for the USA Deering Banjo Company, I would humbly say that I am reasonably qualified to talk about ‘banjos’. I have read all your notes guys, I thank most of you for your understanding, ‘banjo’ intelligence and kind comments. However, if I am to be quoted as a banjo player myself, here is what I have to say about the 5-string ‘banjo’. You can spend a lot or a little on a ‘banjo’ …a 5-string ‘banjo’ is a ‘banjo’, is a ‘banjo’. You can play most kinds of music on a 5-string ‘banjo’ …You can use different string types and gauges and tune in different modes. To get different sounds out of a ‘banjo’ you can also change many of its component parts …if you wish to experiment (we stock lots of different types, makes and designs in our store!) eg. head/vellum, strings, bridge, tailpiece etc. You can fit a tone ring, flanges and a resonator to a ‘banjo’ …this will give the ‘banjo’ greater tone and volume.
Most Bluegrass players prefer a ‘banjo’ with a powerful tone ring and a resonator. The resonator helps to push the sound forward. Most Old-Time, Clawhammer and Frailing style players prefer the more gentle open back ‘banjo’. The above are brief notes and an over simplification of a very technical subject that most of us banjo players love! On a closing note …We give our best help and advice at all times to fellow musicians and entry level players, they can spend a lot or a little with us in our store, and get excellent value. We carry the best USA made ‘banjos’ in the world and hold stocks ranging from a couple of hundred pounds to a few thousand pounds …We offer the Deering ‘Goodtime’ range as our excellent USA made top quality affordable banjo. If a customer bought an open back ‘Goodtime’ from us, we give them the choice at a later stage to buy one of our resonator kits and make the open back ‘Goodtime’ into a ‘Closed Back’ model. We have a dedicated commitment to stay in business in the long term for all our valued customers, so what we can’t afford to do as a viable business is …give a customer their money back, if they change their mind some months down the line. We would however, try to help such a customer all that we could. Bluegrass is a style of music …not a ‘banjo’!!! Steve Noon, www.eaglemusicshop.com October 2009