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Shamrock - Posted - 10/23/2009: 12:12:30
There you go.
Was just working on one.
Juup
"Excuse my English, I think in Dutch"
NYCJazz - Posted - 10/23/2009: 12:27:03
I'm not sure how Irish tenor is done, so I can't speak for that genre, but...
Most tenor/plectrum players I know don't use tabs at all. We just play from sheets with the melody in standard musical notation with chord symbols. With that info, it's all you need to improvise!
I use generally use fake books written for C instruments, but I can use just about any sheet music with guitar chord symbols.
It would probably be a simple matter to transpose mandolin tabs down a fifth for tenor banjo use.
mainejohn - Posted - 10/23/2009: 13:32:26
I've never seen "tabs" for 4 string banjo. As Nathan stated, we use sheet music with the chords noted above the lyrics and musical notation (at least I do)
Cheers,
John Coleman
Scarborough, Maine
Shamrock - Posted - 10/23/2009: 13:47:08
Guy's, so what's the trouble converting some sheetmusic in Tabs?
Just "because we don't do tabs"?
Ofcourse it's good when you can read musical notation, but I don't see why you couldn't write some tabs for some people who can't read notation?
For first time tenor/plectrum players Tabs could be a great help. Just don't hang on to them to much.
Maybe posting some sheetmusic in the tabs section?
Juup
"Excuse my English, I think in Dutch"
MountainBanjo - Posted - 10/23/2009: 17:18:05
Yikes, no tabs...what HAVE I gotten myself into... No hablo notacion...
mainejohn - Posted - 10/23/2009: 17:57:14
You don't need tabs and you really don't need notation....a diagram of the chords above the lyrics is all you really need. I guess one could call the diagram of the chord a "tab" if you want to, as it serves the same purpose. Here's a link to a plectrum arrangement (standard CGBD tuning) of "Sweet Georgia Brown", which I just uploaded as a photo, that should explain my point: (I don't recall where I acquired this arrangement...it may or may not be copyrighted)
banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...albumid=0
Cheers,
John Coleman
Scarborough, Maine
Edited by - mainejohn on 10/23/2009 18:11:53
rudykizuty - Posted - 10/24/2009: 09:11:44
Although I primarily play plectrum and dabble a bit with tenor, for sheer curiosity's sake I looked at 5-string tabs a long time ago to try and understand why they seemed a uniquely a 5-string tool. The reason jumped out at me immediately.
5 string is primarily played striking single notes in sequence, with at most two notes/strings being struck at the same time. So the tab format which displays this series of notes/fingerings makes absolute sense for that particular style of playing.
Plectrum and tenor banjo playing comes completely from the other end of the spectrum. ALL strings are generally being struck/strummed at the same time, with the exception being when only 3 are being struck for inside chords (mostly tenor). There is some single string picking that tends to be more prevalent in tenor play as well, but the key word to that statement is SOME.
The point I am making is equally obvious when you look at the sheet that John posted and then compare it to a tab. This topic easily fits into the category "the right tool for the right job". It's not that there's anything wrong with tabs. It's just that 5-string and 4-string are played so completely differently, tabs are somewhat the square peg in the round tenor/plectrum hole.
Just my own $0.02
UPDATE: I just realized that my comments with respect to tenor banjo really only apply to Jazz/Standard tuning. I believe the Irish/Celtic crowd would take issue with me on the point of there being only "some" picking associated with tenor. My money thinks that the GDAE tuning folder will fill up faster than the ones for CGDA or CGBD.
And with all that said, I remain VERY curious with regard to what may get posted for plectrum. Ya never know what someone may come up with 
Anthony Herner
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have to practice even to be lousy -- Jack Benny
Edited by - rudykizuty on 10/24/2009 09:27:30
NYCJazz - Posted - 10/24/2009: 16:47:17
When I was taking lessons from Roy Smeck, I developed a shorthand form of tablature to write down the solos he had been doing for 60 years.
I'll take a look at my notes to see if I have any good banjo stuff. I think most of them were uke.
I assume there's software used to create the tabs?
Edited by - NYCJazz on 10/24/2009 16:47:58
NYCJazz - Posted - 10/28/2009: 13:00:59
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew blind boy Butler
It sometimes feels like there's quite a snobbish attitude amongst tenor banjoists, especially towards those players with little or no musical knowledge. Certainly not something which is found amongst 5 string banjoists.
It's not unlike the difference between chromatic and diatonic harmonica players.
I know what you mean! Those tenor players are soooo stuck up! It's why I switched to plectrum! ...and don't get me started on chromatic harmonica players. 
rudykizuty - Posted - 10/28/2009: 14:10:03
I hope it was not me sounding snobbish. If so, please pardon me. I only meant to express an opinion. But one I still definitely maintain.
Believe me, I am a decidedly amateur plectrum banjo player (and for that matter a clueless tenor player as well). I don't even consider myself a musician in any sense of the word. I just play banjo. But if tabs really worked for tenor/plectrum style, someone would already be producing them. And there would be a good chance that I'd use them.
Anyway, sorry. But if it the comment were not directed at me......well, ummm, never mind 
Anthony Herner
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have to practice even to be lousy -- Jack Benny
Edited by - rudykizuty on 10/28/2009 14:32:26
NYCJazz - Posted - 10/28/2009: 18:24:20
I just went through my entire collection of music. Not one of my tenor/plectrum books are in tab.
Neither are any of my guitar books.
Lots of my ukulele books are in both standard notation plus tablature, as well as several steel guitar books.
I also went through my Roy Smeck notebook. I could find only 1 solo, Japanese Sandman, that was a tenor banjo solo. The rest were all ukulele. I can't test it out right now because my tenor is disassembled right now.
I guess the software to use is TablEdit? Now I have to learn another piece of software!
Whee!
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 10/29/2009: 01:31:19
If I were going (I´m not) to write down some licks, riffs, sequences, soloes etc., I would have to use the tab-form.
Reason - I do use open strings very much when playing chord melody or rhythmic/harmonic soloes - sometimes I´ll have a tone the same or even lower on a certain string than on the next, lower pitched string. This can´t be written with a standard notation, I think.
When reading/playing arrangements by others I´ll however prefer a notation as shown by John - only with the melody line written in tab-form.
Regards
Polle
Compass56 - Posted - 10/29/2009: 03:43:31
It's interesting and informative (at least to me) to see all of the different approaches to playing music and to playing instruments. (Yes, often those are different from one another.) I approach tenor banjo, guitar, and lap steel all in the same way. I first learn the basic single note melody and basic chords to a song (usually via fakebook). Then, I put together a chord/melody arrangement based on that song's chords and melody. Like Nathan, I don't have books of tabbed out arrangements for 4-string banjo (or for lap steel or guitar for that matter).
The other instrument I play, 5-string banjo, is another matter. I work out some of my arrangements on that instrument too, but I mainly use tab arrangements on 5-string. For some reason--and maybe some of you can chime in on this one--playing others' arrangements seems to work for me on 5-string, but not on my other instruments. Why is that?
Edited by - Compass56 on 10/29/2009 12:25:11
NYCJazz - Posted - 10/29/2009: 05:31:11
quote:
Originally posted by McMandolin
Mandolin tabs will work for Irish tuned tenor
Mandolin cafe has plenty-- mandolincafe.com/tabarc.html
It will work for standard tuned tenor as well... It just won't be in the same key. I was trying to learn Led Zep's "Black Dog" a couple of years ago, and found a tab there. Can't we just steal them and batch transpose them? I'm just sayin.
argus1 - Posted - 10/29/2009: 05:44:01
The only tenor tabs that I've seen are in the updated version of "Harry Reser - Tenor Banjo Legend, 26 Virtuoso Solos for Tenor Banjo". I read the standard notation but tab is there if you want to learn some Reser tunes.
Donna
NYCJazz - Posted - 10/29/2009: 09:38:13
IF I decide to give up some of my valuable practice time and learn a program to create tabs...
What songs should I do?
Should we aim them at beginners?
yellowdog - Posted - 10/29/2009: 11:28:53
I thought that I might address Anthony's comments about the possible use of tabs in playing Irish or Celtic music since I've been enjoying playing Irish music for the past two years on a GDAE tuned tenor. For the 58 years before that I only played a CGDA tuned tenor and now I play both tunings - reading from music until I can "internalize" them. ("Memorize" isn't really the right word learning tunes by heart.)
In most Irish sessions tenor players are expected to play the melody in single note only from memory. Some players don't read music and just learn it by listening to CD's, sessions, iPods, iPhones, etc. My hat is off to them but not learning the music from the printed notes seems like a very difficult and expensive way to go about it. - But whatever works is OK - just so reels can be played at the speed of light.
A huge advantage in reading the notes is that the written music, which is fiddle music, is not copyrighted, is inexpensive if purchased (most can be downloaded free from the web and kept in a notebook). Most of the music is written in keys that are better suited to GDAE tuning. (You often run out of notes on the low end using CGDA tuning.) Even though I read music and played CGDA tuning it still took about a year for the fingers to automatically go to the right places for GDAE tuning, but learning to read for GDAE tuning was well worth the effort. It still pays to listen to the music played by experts to learn the fine points, but not the basic melody.
I don't know anything about tabs but I suspect Anthony is right that they are useful in playing the five string and aren't really applicable to tenor.
Reading music, and learning to read music, is an easy way to learn any tunes, and especially Irish tunes because the music is free and readily available on the web. Learning to read music is easy and the dividends are great, so why bother with tabs?
Frank Geiger
frank.geiger@yahoo.com
geigeracousticdevices.com
Mirek Patek - Posted - 10/29/2009: 11:39:40
quote:
Originally posted by schlange
I just added several tenor/plectrum tunings to the tab archives...now I just need people to post tabs under those tunings!
Well, Eric, what about my tenor tunings DGdg and CGdg? Mirek _________________________________________________________________ Conversion of 5-string banjo tunings to fingerstyle tenor banjo (omit 2nd string): Open G tuning gDGBD or Sawmill tuning gDGCD => DGdg tuning of tenor banjo Classic C tuning gCGBD or Double C tuning gCGCD => CGdg tuning of tenor banjo mirekpatek.com youtube.com/user/mirekpatekHandout for workshops at Johnny Keenan Banjo Festival: banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ID=157944
Mirek Patek - Posted - 10/29/2009: 13:44:44
quote:
Originally posted by schlange
You got tabs you'll post if I add those tunings? :-)
Sure. Mirek _________________________________________________________________ Conversion of 5-string banjo tunings to fingerstyle tenor banjo (omit 2nd string): Open G tuning gDGBD or Sawmill tuning gDGCD => DGdg tuning of tenor banjo Classic C tuning gCGBD or Double C tuning gCGCD => CGdg tuning of tenor banjo mirekpatek.com youtube.com/user/mirekpatekHandout for workshops at Johnny Keenan Banjo Festival: banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ID=157944
mainejohn - Posted - 10/29/2009: 16:29:30
Andrewblindboy...said: "It sometimes feels like there's quite a snobbish attitude amongst tenor banjoists, especially towards those players with little or no musical knowledge. Certainly not something which is found amongst 5 string banjoists."
..where's the snobbery? Is it just tenor players or does that include plectrum players?
I use tabs for learning 5 string arrangements that I can't figure out by ear, and diagrams above the lyrics showing the chord formations (as the link in my previous post describes) for learning plectrum arrangements. In a sense, those chord formation diagrams are a way of "tabbing" chord melody style.
Cheers,
John Coleman
Scarborough, Maine
MountainBanjo - Posted - 10/29/2009: 16:37:51
quote:
Originally posted by yellowdog
I don't know anything about tabs but I suspect Anthony is right that they are useful in playing the five string and aren't really applicable to tenor.
I am almost completely ignorant about playing tenor banjo, so maybe someone can help me understand why people keep saying this. I simply cant conceive of why/how this could be the case. I just got Mel Bay's First Lessons Tenor Banjo. All of it is in tab and notation...there is melody, chords, and chord melody....what else is there? Is this not tenor banjo? Please dont be reluctant to point out my naivete (or stupidity, as the case may be), because I feel like I must be missing something (really big).
acolvin - Posted - 10/31/2009: 11:26:06
I don't know....I'd really appreciate some jazz/dixie tabs in CGDA.
Tabs don't replace sheet music....they just complement it. Tabs are more of a physical or visual tool. I like seeing which chord positions some of you more experienced guys are using and where you are placing your fingers during solos.
With tabs you can really breakdown someones playing style and help develop your form. This would be especially useful with tenor banjo (CGDA) as I rarely meet another player.
Anyways, I've been getting along without tabs for a while now - but I would definitely appreciate some.
acolvin - Posted - 10/31/2009: 13:00:03
Okay gents. I made the first move, but I am going to need your help.
I re-tabbed Greg Gilbert's 5 - string version of Honey Suckle Rose. It is a little off in parts...some massive finger stretching.
If you want - and I want you to - tell me what needs changing.
It is posted already.
Enjoy!
Mirek Patek - Posted - 11/04/2009: 01:10:12
quote:
Originally posted by Mirek Patek
quote:
Originally posted by schlange
You got tabs you'll post if I add those tunings? :-)
Sure.
Mirek
I am not joking, Eric: mirekpatek.com/teftabs.htmMirek _________________________________________________________________ Conversion of 5-string banjo tunings to fingerstyle tenor banjo (omit 2nd string): Open G tuning gDGBD or Sawmill tuning gDGCD => DGdg tuning of tenor banjo Classic C tuning gCGBD or Double C tuning gCGCD => CGdg tuning of tenor banjo mirekpatek.com youtube.com/user/mirekpatekHandout for workshops at Johnny Keenan Banjo Festival: banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ID=157944
Mirek Patek - Posted - 11/05/2009: 13:51:14
quote:
Originally posted by schlange
I added your tunings--enjoy!
Thanks! Mirek _________________________________________________________________ Conversion of 5-string banjo tunings to fingerstyle tenor banjo (omit 2nd string): Open G tuning gDGBD or Sawmill tuning gDGCD => DGdg tuning of tenor banjo Classic C tuning gCGBD or Double C tuning gCGCD => CGdg tuning of tenor banjo mirekpatek.com youtube.com/user/mirekpatekHandout for workshops at Johnny Keenan Banjo Festival: banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ID=157944
beezaboy - Posted - 11/24/2009: 03:18:32
Banjopaolo - Thank you for the tab. Nice work and I'm going to try it.
Tell me, how do you play the inside chords? Do you just strum the three
inside strings and have such pick control that the first string is not struck?
Or, are you muting the first string with your left hand finger(s) in some way??
banjopaolo - Posted - 11/24/2009: 22:16:27
quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy
Banjopaolo - Thank you for the tab. Nice work and I'm going to try it.
Tell me, how do you play the inside chords? Do you just strum the three
inside strings and have such pick control that the first string is not struck?
Or, are you muting the first string with your left hand finger(s) in some way??
I Beezaboy to be more sure I'm used to mute the A string with the pinky or ring finger of the left hand, also if probably I wouldn't need it since my strumming is quite precise.... I'm happy this arrangemaent interests you, remember that I have nine songs arrangement in tab+traditional notation with a cd, the songs are: 1 Canal Street Blues 2 Sweet Lorraine 3 The Mooche 4 After You’ve Gone 5 Daventport Blues 6 Mood Indigo 7 Nobody Knows You (When You’re down and out) 8 Ain’t Misbehaving 9 Bill Bailey this is what Cynthia Sayer wrote me about this booklet: I want to offer you my most heartfelt compliments!! I was already impressed from your Myspace cuts. I also completely love your CD. You have such a wonderful individual sound and approach, I adore your open-minded, unique sensibility, and so full of emotion and heart. You help bring the banjo into new places. Warmest regards, Cynthia
NYCJazz - Posted - 11/25/2009: 08:13:06
Paolo
That is a nice testimonial! I will ask to hear some of the CD next time I'm at Cynthia's
banjopaolo - Posted - 11/25/2009: 12:24:55
quote:
Originally posted by NYCJazz
Paolo
That is a nice testimonial! I will ask to hear some of the CD next time I'm at Cynthia's
Give my regards to Cynthia! and tell her I'm still waiting to see her down here in Italy.... You're lucky to have such a musician near you! best paolo
rudykizuty - Posted - 11/25/2009: 12:25:39
Okay.....I'm curious. Anyone have "Seems Like Old Times" in plectrum? or tenor?
steve...r - Posted - 11/25/2009: 21:55:57
I started on the trumpet in school and they made us learn to read music...no tab for trumpet though
When I started playing the mandolin though tab really helped, but I always needed the notation and the tab( like at jaybuckey.com) so that I can see how it should sound(from notation) and where to put my fingers( tabs) . I always figured it'd be a waste of time to learn to read for mando since I always thought I'd end up playing a different instrument instead, and I don't think the guy I took lessons from read music either and he was a fiddle champ.
eventually though I switched to the Irish banjo-GDAE- and I love it and dont want to switch, lol so I gave up on not learning to read music. I get a lot of my music from thesession.org though and they just have the dots so when I did play the mandolin I always ended up tabbing it myself(kinda redundent) and that actually helped me a lot cuz i can read music now(slowly) and I know where all of the notes are on my banjo because of having to translate it by hand into tab...
I get that tab is useless for people who already can read music, but its REALLY helpful for some beginners. It IS probably better to pair it with the dots, just to give 'em an idea of how it looks "officially", but either way..
hopefully this made sense, I just took a sleepin pill though cuz my sleep schedule's outta whack, so sorry if it didn't
steve...r - Posted - 11/25/2009: 21:57:40
I also didnt see this second page..hm..
Richard Scullard - Posted - 01/28/2010: 09:17:52
I think I have found the right forum to ask for help. I am playing a ukulele banjo in "C" with GCEA tuning. I am progressing with tunes that I know which have the chords written in the music. Also the excellent BHO down loads which show the fingering beside the words and the chord changes within each line. what I now need is a CD with either the associated written music or the chord changes so that I can play along on my own. For example I have a George Formby CD and chords for "MR WU" and "When I'm Cleaning Windows"but is the music the same as the CD? So can anyone help me to find a CD plus the associated chords please?Ideally traditional Jazz, Country Music, Irish and Scottish tunes. I am new to the BHO and am most impressed. My computing skills are even more rudimentary than my playing. Cheers Richard.
Tagert - Posted - 02/19/2010: 18:14:25
I got a bunch of 4string GDAE banjo tabs in guitar pro format, I'll see if I can convert them to pdf's :)
Fishmonger - Posted - 03/01/2010: 06:57:41
I play, I mean I'm learning to play, Irish tenor. And have been using ABC notation to get a grasp of tunes I want to learn. It's very common for Irish and Old Time music. Lotsa tunes available. Here's a HUGE database of tunes. --> trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind
Have any of you guys tried using it? It's an ideal format for tunes where single strings are being played in a melody and you can write/play chords with it if you wish. It's not written for a single tuning either so anybody can use it with just about any instrument.
Try downloading a free piece of software called ABC Explorer stalikez.info/abc/abcex.php which will interpret the ABC files and give you sheet music and midi playback.
Here's an example of some ABC in an old time tune.
X: 1
T:Flop Eared Mule
S:Long forgotten
Z:Nigel Gatherer
L:1/8
M:4/4
K:D
de | f2 f2 d2 d2 | ABAG FE D2 | E2 G2 F2 E2 | DEFG A2 de |
f2 f2 d2 d2 | ABAG FE D2 | E2 G2 F2 E2 | D4 D2 ||
cd | e2 c2 e2 c2 | efed cB A2 | B2 d2 c2 B2 | ABcd e2 cd |
e2 c2 e2 c2 | efed cB A2 | B2 d2 c2 B2 | A4 A2 |]
VM - Posted - 03/28/2010: 22:01:55
Eric,
I can't actually remember seeing any tablature in 4 string world but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist but its not a prevalant method
Mainly chord boxs and chord names over the measures.
Vinnie
4stringbanjos.com
NYCJazz - Posted - 04/01/2010: 07:02:51
quote:
Originally posted by catty
No tab...but I love this site for charts:
theguitarguy.com/songs.htm
Wow! Thanks! I'm already doing a head arrangement of "If I Only Had a Brain"! 
catty - Posted - 04/01/2010: 18:13:12
quote:
Originally posted by NYCJazz
quote:
Originally posted by catty
No tab...but I love this site for charts:
theguitarguy.com/songs.htm
Wow! Thanks! I'm already doing a head arrangement of "If I Only Had a Brain"!
It's quite a resource, eh. Have you by chance got any Jelly Roll charts?
ScottB45 - Posted - 04/02/2010: 13:50:22
For those into Irish tenor, take a look at the mandolin tabs on mandolincafe.com. Since the Irish is tuned GDAE (an octave below a mandolin), those tabs should give you something to do.
peace
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