Prewar3 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  04:52:08

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When I was in Nashville for IBMA I went over to Steve Hubers shop to say hey. Steve had a couple of banjos with his new tone ring in them and also the new rim. I gotta tell you its very impressive. A fella I drove out with had sent his Huber back before IBMA so Steve could install one of the new rings in his banjo. This thing just "lit up" (thats the best way I can describe it) when you touched the strings with your picks. The tone was excellant, although tone is subjective to the ear ( I think ), volume could be off the charts depending on how you pic but with little effort on picking the strings volume was great. Big ole fat fourth string, great sustain but also with a good drop off. I think some folks call this decay but I'm not sure so I refer to it as drop off. I was just really impressed and over time I have become somewhat "cynical" about the all the new, high priced, tone rings. But this new Huber did impress me. I was able to pick up a Ron Block model Huber while at IBMA and although it has the "old" Huber ring in it Steve was/is very willing to work with me on upgrading it in a couple months when I go back out there for SPBGMA. I love my Huber Block model as is but am also interested in seeing how it explodes with the newer ring in it. If you are in the market for a new tone ring though do yourself a favor and check out Hubers new ring. Jim Mulford

Jim Prewar3

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Edited by - Texasbanjo on 10/14/2009 06:02:42

Prewar3 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  07:17:30

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Boy, I've already started to get a couple of emails on reality vs. hype. Like many other folks that post topics to start conversation and let other players know what they/I have found that works well for me it is just that. Steve Huber and I do now have a business relationship. I read topics all the time about guys/gals that try a new ring, capo, rim, banjo, strings, cold strings, hot strings, cryogenic strings. I wonder how many of these people got or get emails and find out they are working for the people they make the positive post about. Of course I am being somewhat cynical here. But from the couple of emails I've gotten, not posted in the forum but a private email, I guess the world has become a suspicious, cynical place. Here is how I answered the emails recieved shortly after posting my topic/opinion on the new Huber ring:

Well, I have to disagree with you. Just opinion I guess, and like they saying goes, everyone has one. Am I one of "Steve's good ole boys" I don't know. What I do know is that I think Steve Huber is as professional as the come, is great when working with someone on their banjo, loves what he does and his passion comes thru in the product he produces. I would like to think of him as not only the owner and maker of Huber banjos but as a freind. Am I impressed with his banjos, yep. I am I impressed with this new ring that I got to sit with and play and compare to other rings that day, yep, Am I impressed with Yates banjos, yep. Am I impressed with new Gibson banjos, nope. Stellings have never done anything for me, but once again, matter of taste. I got a very dear friend who loves them. I have been fortunate enough to play around some with different parts of the banjo. try different rings, different rims, different bridges, different capos, different strings. IE..when Bill Stokes came out about ten years ago with the first "Timeless Timber" type submerged hardwood there was the same banter back and forth. Some said hype, some said big difference in a good way, some said not that much. BUT, the bottom line is that there is a difference between the older submerged woods vs. the woods that come from a tree farm. Will some disagree, sure. I've been fortunate enough to try the different rings, although I would not spend 1600 for a Burlile ring, I did have a Williams banjo that I got on a trade that had the Burlile in it. There was a difference in the tone, decay, sustain etc..when compared to a Huber ring, a Sullivan ring. a Stelling ring, a Dannick ring, and the Kulesh that came in my Granada. Now was there a 1000 difference....not for me but maybe for someone else. The other thing to keep in mind is that you can put a great ring and rim in a s***ty banjo and with the right set up it will sound pretty awesome. I have heard some of the 100k prewar banjos sound quite crappy...is it the difference in the ring at the time, the rim or the set up. Much has to do with setup. Now, reading Roger Siminoffs monthly articles in BNL and in his books, reading and talking to folks that have tested tone rings, rims etc...a good source is NDJohn who is a hangout member, no doubt about it that there is a difference in rings and the more expensive tend to sound better. Not because they are more expensive as you would probably say but because these folks have spent alot of time, effort and money on research and development. But, to each his own. Isn't there a saying about speaking before trying something and ignorance is bliss or something like that. Have a good one, Jim

Jim Prewar3

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Edited by - Prewar3 on 10/15/2009 08:28:58

davepicks5 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  08:52:29

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Jim

I would describe myself as being "one of the Huber good ole boys" on the Hangout.

That said, I like Yates and Blaylock rings very much, the Dannick I owned was okay, but maybe I did not get the most out of it......the Burlile I owned was very good, but the price was a bit high compared to my satisfaction level.

I was asked by Huber to test drive his prototype ring and have posted several times on its performance......

The new HR 30 ring is not going to be for everyone, certainly not for those that are already convinced that the other rings mentioned above meet their expectations.

I have developed an adage....." If you KNOW and CARE, you will KNOW and CARE".....

What I have been searching for......"a sound you can feel" is being realized from my exposure to this new ring.

If the topic of prewar tone interests you, this ring will be well worth exploring.

David

Thor - Posted - 10/14/2009:  09:44:42

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quote:

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The other thing to keep in mind is that you can put a great ring and rim in a s***ty banjo and with the right set up it will sound pretty awesome.

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I don't understand this at all.
If you have a great rim and ring, how can you "put it in" a banjo? All you can do is put a different neck on the pot.

For example, say you have a Stelling...
If you take a Timeless Timber rim and a new Huber tone ring pot assembly, you can't really "put it into" the Stelling, you're just bolting the Stelling neck onto the TT rim. What you end up with is certainly not a Stelling banjo.

I guess the way I see it is either the rim and the neck or the rim and tone ring ARE the banjo.
If you have a Gibson, you can replace the tone ring and still have a Gibson... but if you replace both the rim and the tone ring, all you have is a Gibson neck attached to something else.

I know there are different opinions on this, but I chuckle when I read about someone putting a FF rim and Sullivan ring "into" a Morgan Monroe banjo. Basically, I think they have a Sullivan with a MM neck on it, not a Morgan Monroe "banjo" anymore.

Prewar3 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  13:03:58

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"If you have a great rim and ring, how can you "put it in" a banjo? All you can do is put a different neck on the pot."

What you ask/say is another topic all together. I was just using the "putting a great rim and ring in what some would call an inferior banjo and it will make it sound pretty good". My initial post was to just state something I had the opportunity to hear and play while I was at SPBGMA. I shared it with the hangout, which is what folks do here. I recieved and email shortly thereafter about it being all "hype" and "Hubers good ole boy network" etc, which put my nose out of joint so to speak so I then responded to that instead of sticking with my original post. So I guess I should just start over. I had the opportunity to play a couple of banjos that had the new Huber tone ring and new Huber rim. I also had the opportunity to have the process explained to me on how they came up with the newer formula and thier theory on the rim etc. I played the banjos with the new ring quite a bit throughout the weekend and am very impressed with it, so much so that I would upgrade my Huber down the road. Congratulations to all the guys at Steve Hubers shop for all the time, effort and money they put into developing the new rim and ring. Jim Mulford

Jim Prewar3

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Edited by - Prewar3 on 10/14/2009 13:12:46

Thor - Posted - 10/14/2009:  13:43:00

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I apologize.. I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 10/14/2009:  14:20:23

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It doesn't matter if it's the new Huber ring,a prewar ring or a Helix rim.If you say it's hype without ever having played it or heard it......you're forming an opinion without the benefit of knowledge.

Rod

Here's some music you might enjoy.

cdbaby.com/cd/roddurst

tinychat.com/banjolounge Come on in an enjoy!

impickin5 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  15:22:57

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Hey Jim Prewar3,

Good to hear your comments about the new HR-30 ring. Don't let the nitpickers and naysayers bother you. Hang in there.

I've got one ordered from Steve which should be here by this weekend or maybe next week. Will be posting my comments about it later.

Ray

HookedOnBluegrass - Posted - 10/14/2009:  16:38:17

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I've got the new Huber ring in my banjo and I'm very impressed. The banjo seems to have more punch and when you strike the string its there.

Practice makes "better".

vtyankee5 - Posted - 10/14/2009:  18:24:22

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We should appreciate the fact buiders are using their money, time & technology to provide some of the greatest sounding banjos made. I've had an original Huber in a banjo for a long time. Never going to change it, but I'm interested in what Steve has come up with.

Prewar3 - Posted - 10/15/2009:  08:32:57

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In my second post on the topic I started I had originally wrote that I was not one of "Steve's good ole boys". After thinking about this for a good 24 hours I decided I needed to "amend" that comment. So here is what I changed it too:

"Am I one of "Steve's good ole boys" I don't know. What I do know is that I think Steve Huber is as professional as they come, is great when working with someone on their banjo, loves what he does and his passion comes thru in the product he produces. I would like to think of him as not only the owner and maker of Huber banjos but as a friend".

Thanks to everyone posting on this topic of Steve's new HR-30 ring. I know Hooked on Bluegrass and his is one of the banjos with the new Huber ring that I got to play off and on while I was at IBMA. That thing is a cannon.

Jim Prewar3

HookedOnBluegrass - Posted - 10/15/2009:  19:54:01

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Thanks Jim for the compliment on my banjo. I took it to a jam tonight and it was sounding strong. I'm very impressed with this new ring. It really added what I call "energy" to my banjo. You hit the string and it there and the notes are so clear!!

Practice makes "better".

1935tb-11 - Posted - 10/15/2009:  21:38:34

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jim do you have a banjo with one of hubers old rings
in it , say from 97 or 98?
i have heard alot of conversions with the later rings in
them and they just didn't have what mine has got in it. they were almost confined sounding beside mine.
it may be just me but i think his old rings sounded better than the ones made since 2000. but thats just
me. wonder if he will give a trade in allowance for an old huber ring on a new huber ring, mmmmmmmmmmmmmm..


terry m
n.c.

Timendi causa est nescire

4 longs and 1 short=banjer ring

davepicks5 - Posted - 10/16/2009:  05:38:27

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Terry

I believe Steve is offering a trade allowance for a new HR30 ring.......give them a call or email them and they can give you an official position.

David

markbyrum@erols.com - Posted - 10/21/2009:  09:40:37

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I stopped by Steve's shop en route NashCamp banjo weekend last week and had him put the new ring in my one year old Shelor Custom (gold with a reclaimed barn wood maple neck and maple resonator). While I believed (and many agreed) that the Huber was a great sounding banjo, the new ring made a significant difference. When he first played it after installing it I thought I heard a difference - crisper and with more "bottom growl," but I wasn't overawed immediately with a change. I have a pre-war Style-11 (also a maple neck and resonator) with an original Huber ring in it and the difference between the new Huber and my pre-war had been subtle, but discernible nonetheless. The pre-war was just a little crisper and more "rattle-ly" down low, but not as loud.

I had to get across town to the campsite for NashCamp, so I left hoping the investment was worth it - oh, by the way, Steve took the old ring in trade giving me credit towards the new ring. A couple of hours later as I began to pick with it at NashCamp, the sound just blossomed out - I guess the ring had to settle in and be played a little. As the weekend progressed the better it sounded. As unbiased as I was ("not"), I thought the banjo compared well to Bill Evans' and Sonny Osborne's pre-war flathead Granadas. Bill Evans liked the sound. Bill Emerson played it, looked at me and said, "you don't need to bother looking for a better sounding banjo." I'll take that as a positive vote. Charlie Cushman played it and really liked it - "that's a great sounding banjo." I met a fellow there - among the best non-instructor pickers there - who had recently purchased a 1927 Granada. He told me that my Huber was the best sounding new banjo he had played all weekend. I think I'll take that as another positive vote. The bottom line: unless you are prepared to spend in the upper five or six figures for an original pre-war flat-head, have a listen to Huber's new ring. My experience says you won't be disappointed.

HookedOnBluegrass - Posted - 10/21/2009:  18:01:52

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Great story Mark. That sounds like a cool Huber as well. Do you have any pictures of it?

Practice makes "better".

markbyrum@erols.com - Posted - 10/22/2009:  12:12:49

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quote:

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Originally posted by HookedOnBluegrass

Great story Mark. That sounds like a cool Huber as well. Do you have any pictures of it?

Practice makes "better".

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Yes, I just posted them.
Mark

Catching Second - Posted - 10/22/2009:  14:48:56

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quote:

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Originally posted by vtyankee5

We should appreciate the fact buiders are using their money, time & technology to provide some of the greatest sounding banjos made.....

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True... I know I do. However, I find it near impossible for me to solely take a builder's word on whether or not a $1,600 tone ring is any better than a $200 tone ring is better than an $800 tone ring if I haven't played either one myself. At the end of the day a builder is a business man, so none of his/her products are going to be "just OK" if you ask that particular builder.

To spark up what I would really like to hear in person and what I call hype, I rely on the comments from other players that have done side-by-side comparisons with multiple kinds of these products. On products that make no difference in sound, I rely on only the most experienced's recomendation.

On products that make all the difference in sound, I rely on nothing other than my own ear.


Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

impickin5 - Posted - 10/22/2009:  15:15:07

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I agree with Cliff about the head at an A. I received my HR-30 ring last Saturday, put it in the banjo, tightened the head to where it sounded awesome, and then determined the head was tuned to an A. Well, over the next couple of days, the head stretched a little to where the head was at a G# and then a little below G#. While it sounded good, it just was not as good as when the head was at an A. So last night, I tightened the head back to an A and it's awesome again. Also, like Cliff said, probably the best 4th string I've ever heard, but the 3rd string is also probably the best I've ever heard. FWIW, the ring to rim fit in this banjo is a fairly loose fit. You can turn the pot upside down and the ring will fall off.

Definitely the best ring I've ever used. Steve nailed it on this one.

Ray

RB100 - Posted - 10/22/2009:  16:06:50

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I happen to really like the Huber rings...what is happening with the trade ins...are they being posted on Steve's site?? I would like to find one of the early Huber rings that has been traded in for the new model...

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

markbyrum@erols.com - Posted - 10/22/2009:  16:36:10

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eastbanjo

Mark,
Is that some of your personal wood you had Steve to use on the neck of your huber? Or did Steve have it?

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I provided the old barn wood - straight grained hard maple - worm holes and all. I could not tell whether it was straight or curly until it was machined (wood from barns aren't usually finished to the point of where one can tell that at a glance). It turned out great!
Mark

Catching Second - Posted - 10/22/2009:  16:48:01

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quote:

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Originally posted by fitch5string



You get what you pay for. If you want $200.00 worth a tone, buy a $200.00 ring. Personally, I would rather invest in the best rings on the market instead of wasting my money or cheaper rings. If you havent played a $1600.00 ring or $800.00 ring, you shouldnt assume that they are "hype".
If a builder is not using the best avalible rings on the market, they are not doing the customer or themselves any good. It would be like buying a 4 cylinder Corvette.

FITCH BANJOS
FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

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Well said Cliffy, but again... I don't trust anything that's going to make that much of a difference until I hear it. But the "you get what you pay for" mentality is quite a generalized way of thinking. Just because something costs more money doesn't mean it's better. Especially when "perfect" sound is a very personalized experience.

I'm not saying an uber expensive tone ring is hype... if that's what you read when you gandered over my post, please re-read it. I'm saying that if the majority of VERY experienced players are saying it's not worth the money and time, then it's lower on my list of things I'd like to try in person. My honest opinion on the tone ring issue is one that I keep to myself, but I always keep from forming a set opinion until I've played one.

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

eagleisland - Posted - 10/23/2009:  05:00:14

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quote:

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Originally posted by markbyrum@erols.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Eastbanjo

Mark,
Is that some of your personal wood you had Steve to use on the neck of your huber? Or did Steve have it?

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I provided the old barn wood - straight grained hard maple - worm holes and all. I could not tell whether it was straight or curly until it was machined (wood from barns aren't usually finished to the point of where one can tell that at a glance). It turned out great!
Mark

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I played this banjo at Nashcamp, and it's just as Mark says. Great sound and playability. And the worm holes in the neck are exactly as described! It's a one-of-a-kind instrument, and a beauty.

eagleisland

"I was halfway to Old Kentucky when the drugs began to kick in." - Hunter S. Monroe

bilge rat - Posted - 10/23/2009:  08:53:00

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Dang..I was at Nashcamp and missed this banjo? I have a Huber VRB4 with the older ring in that sounds great..but may get a HR-30 for a conversion that I am working on.

jccobrien - Posted - 10/23/2009:  10:41:22

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Bilge- I have one of the Huber VRB-4's also. Terrific sounding banjo, too good to tinker with. I would like to try the new ring btu it will have to be with another banjo. Jim O

RB11 Player - Posted - 10/23/2009:  11:39:49

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quote:

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You get what you pay for. If you want $200.00 worth a tone, buy a $200.00 ring. Personally, I would rather invest in the best rings on the market instead of wasting my money or cheaper rings. If you havent played a $1600.00 ring or $800.00 ring, you shouldnt assume that they are "hype".
If a builder is not using the best avalible rings on the market, they are not doing the customer or themselves any good. It would be like buying a 4 cylinder Corvette.

FITCH BANJOS
FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

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Agree Cliff. Burlile then Dannick set the stage for the high end rings each with a different quality sound. Now Huber has added a third sound to the high end market. Other ring builders will either Bam!!! step it up a notch & follow or get left behind. I own a Burlile and a Dannick soon to own a HR30. I want to sound the best I can.

BDC1 - Posted - 10/23/2009:  12:26:18

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I think Stever Huber set that stage a long long time ago fellas. I have my opinions but I respect the other builders, so Im not going to broadcast my opinions and step on toes, but Cliff I'd say your comment to Ricky was a little left of center if you honestly think that way about tone rings. I HAVE played about every boutique ring out there except the Dannick, so I cannot honestly give an opinion on that one. What I can say is that after all the trying out and tinkering Im still using Hatfield rings

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Edited by - BDC1 on 10/23/2009 12:27:14

vtyankee5 - Posted - 10/23/2009:  17:03:15

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With that many banjo ears out there good thing there is a boat load of tone rings to match. There is a sound for everybody. Choose the ring you like the best and respect those who like another sound.

BDC1 - Posted - 10/23/2009:  17:15:57

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Well said!

Forrest - Posted - 10/23/2009:  18:13:30

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I agree that Steve Huber set the standard for high end tone rings over 10 years ago. I remember folks agape at the thought of paying over $300 for a tone ring back in the late 90s, a price that seems rather commonplace today.

I applaud Steve for continuing to innovate and continuing to produce one of the very best tone rings at any price and I'm happy to see that he has priced his new ring at a point that is fitting a premium ring, but at a point that many of us can afford, unlike some of the other makers that have been casually advertised in this thread.

"Run, Forrest, Run!"

Catching Second - Posted - 10/23/2009:  19:01:31

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quote:

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Originally posted by fitch5string

If you are happy with your tone ring, thats really all that matters. If you want to step up to the next level, you've gotta pay. Simple as that.

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Now see, Cliff. It's that last little part there that really ruins what you said before it. "It's all in what you like, yadda yadda yadda"... I agree, I agree, yadda yadda. You were going good. It looked pretty civil. Then it comes... "If you want to step up to the next level...". Does that mean that my taste in what good tone is is crap? Does that mean that every other builder in the world that does NOT use million dollar tone rings have no idea what they're doing. Better yet... because you were quoting someone who said that Hatfield tone rings was their preference... and you follow it up with "If you want to step up..", you're saying that Hatfield doesn't make the best tone rings?

This makes me so giddy I can hardly stand it.

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

Catching Second - Posted - 10/23/2009:  19:14:59

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Ok. I'll type it slower this time, so maybe you can read it better.

When you start off saying "Tone is in the ear of the holder" kind of stuff.... and then follow it by "If you want to take a step up from what you have, try a ______", you contradict yourself.

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

Forrest - Posted - 10/23/2009:  20:22:16

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I do think there is a point where tone ring pricing and the perceived value gets a little ridiculous. I've owned both of the rings that you've mentioned Cliff and thought they were very fine, but I bought both already installed in banjos and would have to think twice before spending the money for either of these rings on a retail basis. I am however shelling out the money to have one of my Hubers upgraded with the new HR-30 ring and I am confident that I will be happy with the result.

I've seen it with musical instruments and also with firearms my entire life. You can't buy the ability to shoot, no matter how much money you shell out on gear and guns. That ability only comes with talent and practice. The same goes with banjos, guitars, trumpets, euphoniums, etc. If you can't play worth a crap, then shelling out $800 or $900 or $1600 makes no difference in your ability to play. Only practice, practice and more practice will give you the ability to pull tone, good timing and musical taste, which impress me far more than what tone ring you have in your banjo. I've picked with folks with banjos that cost less than my banjo cases that impress the heck out of me because of the music they make, but I've never been impressed by brand snobbery or how much someone spent on a tone ring.

"Run, Forrest, Run!"

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Edited by - Forrest on 10/23/2009 20:22:43

mastertone250 - Posted - 10/23/2009:  21:39:33

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I think ill stick with my Hatfeild. I like hubers too!

"Surround Yourself With Good Muscians". -J.D Crowe
“Nobody is a legend, we all put our pants on one leg at a time.” - Sonny Osborne

vtyankee5 - Posted - 10/24/2009:  03:33:30

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None of us look the same. None of us hear the same. We are all not the same.

Most bluegrass pickers strive to sound like Earl. I have since I was a young picker. I don't know any pickers who could blindfold me and make me think Earl was picking in front of me. And lord do many try (dream) to sound like him.

If such a large percentage of pickers cannot sound or pick like Earl, then why do we feel we can hear like Earl?

Respect your fellow picker for what they See, Hear & Feel in a banjo. Just because it's not the same as you does not mean it's wrong.

Earl learned to pick first then bought the banjo he liked the sound of. Today's picker tries to buy a sound and doesn't bother to learn to pick.

Someone said it correct on this thread. Learn to pick. I tell my few students to learn to pick first then find the sound that will embelish your style of play. And buy CD's if you want to dream only and play the air banjo.

HookedOnBluegrass - Posted - 10/24/2009:  08:15:28

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Fitch Im not one to stir things up but...back on page one you were complimenting the new rim and ring which is fine because thats is what the thread is pertaining to. But then you come back and start talking about the other rings on the markets that you sell. I feel like you should have just made your comments on the the new Huber ring and left it at that.

Practice makes "better".

Roll Player - Posted - 10/24/2009:  10:11:40

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Forrest said it all. Having the most expensive tone ring won't take your picking to the "next level." Only practice can do that. If you haven't developed a good right hand, then the quest for banjo tone just becomes a wild goose chase. (imo, of course)

Art

Arthur Hatfield - Posted - 10/24/2009:  17:48:43

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I'm in no way degrading any of the rings mentioned above I have tried them all and they are all great rings along with Hubers other rings and several other ones. Each with a little different sound and its a personal thing which one the player prefers.
What has me so confused is Cliffs statement about price making a difference in sound. I just looked up a post in the swap shop there for any one to read titled Killer pot Assembly consisting of his unplated V75 long skirt ring on a recording King rim not saying anything bad about a RK rim but his statement about higher priced being better, I found another Swap Shop item selling one of his new V75 rings for 300.00 shipped, and in the Killer Pot Assembly ad he said it was in the top 3 best sounding pot assemblies that had ever been in his shop. The RK rim retails for about 60.00 and those two pieces would total 360.00. So there he was not saying a lot for the more it cost the better it is. Seems to me according to that ad that his V75 ring had out done several high dollar rings that had been in his shop according to his statements. Like Ricky said and also what confuses me so bad is this week something is the greatest and 2 weeks later I see a post that totally contradicts the one made just shortly before. When I start seeing these kind of posts being made I watch for the next one coming. But nevertheless I'm still confused.

Arthur Hatfield
HATFIELD BANJO'S
GLASGOW, KY 42141
(270)646-5219
BANJO WEBSITE WWW.HATFIELDBANJOS.COM
EMAIL HATFIELDBANJOS@SCRTC.COM

banjostan - Posted - 10/24/2009:  18:46:36

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To me parts are parts...even out of the same batch you get some that are made that just sound better than others from the same person it either has it or it don't i went out see my son last week at an airforce base and i stop;ed at a banjo shop and i found out that they make semi finish necks ....for a maker on the hangout ...which is fine i suppose and no it is not you aurthr i have seen aurthr necks built from scratch ibuy and sell alot and trade banjo;s and had some i wish i had kept. but like everybody build's nice banjo's it is just what you ear want's to here.next week or next year their will be a new tonering or a new banjo that every one will have to have to me i had a 1'500.00 burlile which to my ear was not what i like but i have a great banjo and crazy for selling but we all chase our tail looking for the greatest banjo and tonering their is out their it dosent matter who make's it when i find that killer banjo i will know whoever makes it it's calle'd marketing and how the banjo is setup..... and a right hand.

always remember the father and son in heaven

Timron - Posted - 10/24/2009:  18:50:15

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I think this is the add and I have to agree ...why would I spend 1600. on a ring when only 2 other rings were better in all your builds. I personally don't care for
Burlile or Dannick rings as they are not suited to my ear but to some they are great and sound great in some pickers hands.



I am selling what has to be one of the top 3 pot assemblies that I have ever had in my shop. It is about 2 weeks old and like new. It is the result of an experiment that I did that had incredible results. This assembly consists of one of my un-plated Vintage-75 long skirt tone rings mounted on a Recording King maple rim that I machined from a blank. The maple was extreemly old and dry and , the finished rim came out very light weight. I knew when I was machining it that it was going to be a good rim becasue it was so dry and had that old smell that I smell when I cut prewar rims. I cut it to prewar Style-75 specs and colored it the same. It has a RK flange, Prucha hooks,nuts, tension hoop.As a binus, it has a new-old-stock pre-EPA Remo head installed which I paid $100.00 for recently. If you like the sound of a converted ibson Style-11 or KK, you will like this assembly. It sounds indentical to me with that dry, deep, and powerful tone.

dorse - Posted - 10/24/2009:  18:54:48

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It's just marketing. It'd be hard to sell a banjo component or banjo saying that it is of good or average sound, etc. However, throw in a bunch of adjectives to create excitement and the chances of making a sale will improve.

Throw in the psychology of "you get what you pay for" and some will rationalize that if it costs more, it has to be better. Sometimes it's true, and sometimes not.

I recently played a banjo that was built with a very expensive new tone ring and I was not impressed. I was expecting a magical tone and it was not there.

One of the good points of it all is that there are alot of choices out there and overall the bluegrass banjo world is being bettered for new innovations, etc. Just don't let cost alone dictate the percieved quality of a banjo component though.

Also the best instrument does not make up for poor playing. I've seen and heard holy grail instruments (classic flatheads and Loars mainly) in hands of folks who have not built a solid foundation in playing, and you know what, those instruments didn't sound very good at all.

--Dorse

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Edited by - dorse on 10/24/2009 18:59:57

dryman - Posted - 10/24/2009:  20:02:49

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Very informative

TnFrosty - Posted - 10/24/2009:  20:11:33

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quote:

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Maybe it is jeolousy

FITCH BANJOS
FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

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LOL

mastertone250 - Posted - 10/24/2009:  20:43:27

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quote:

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Originally posted by fitch5string

quote:

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Originally posted by Arthur Hatfield

I'm in no way degrading any of the rings mentioned above I have tried them all and they are all great rings along with Hubers other rings and several other ones. Each with a little different sound and its a personal thing which one the player prefers.
What has me so confused is Cliffs statement about price making a difference in sound. I just looked up a post in the swap shop there for any one to read titled Killer pot Assembly consisting of his unplated V75 long skirt ring on a recording King rim not saying anything bad about a RK rim but his statement about higher priced being better, I found another Swap Shop item selling one of his new V75 rings for 300.00 shipped, and in the Killer Pot Assembly ad he said it was in the top 3 best sounding pot assemblies that had ever been in his shop. The RK rim retails for about 60.00 and those two pieces would total 360.00. So there he was not saying a lot for the more it cost the better it is. Seems to me according to that ad that his V75 ring had out done several high dollar rings that had been in his shop according to his statements. Like Ricky said and also what confuses me so bad is this week something is the greatest and 2 weeks later I see a post that totally contradicts the one made just shortly before. When I start seeing these kind of posts being made I watch for the next one coming. But nevertheless I'm still confused.

Arthur Hatfield
HATFIELD BANJO'S
GLASGOW, KY 42141
(270)646-5219
BANJO WEBSITE WWW.HATFIELDBANJOS.COM
EMAIL HATFIELDBANJOS@SCRTC.COM

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Uhh...Arthur, I am a bit surprized that you would also take what I have posted out of context. I think it is very unprofessional of you. I have NEVER degraded YOU or any of your products. I mearly stated that if you want to take your banjo (not banjo playing) to the next level, you have to spend the bucks. I know you are a fan of Huber rings too. I like his new ring. Ive said it a few times here already. I like Burlile rings too. I like my V-75 ring but I have also stated that it is not the same caliber as the high end rings. It was designed to fit a certain niche. I would'nt even consider selling a bad sounding pot assembly but, there are some that are better than others. One of the best I have ever heard was my V-75 on a RK rim. Dont know what, but, it was incredible sounding. Even the guy that owns it was blown away with it. Thats is not the norm though. I think it is a shame that a person cannot post a genuine opinion on this website without being attacked, even by another builder. Maybe it is jeolousy, I dont know. I am done with this topic.

FITCH BANJOS
FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

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Uh .......Arthur Wasnt unprofessional. Hes one of the Nicest fellers around. #1 His Rings and banjo's AND Customer Servie are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better than yours, i might be rude right now,but I have to speak up for Hatfeild Banjos cuz i like them and Arthur is a nice person and doesnt have a bad bone in his body. #2Arthur also doesnt drain every dime out of a person, just because it has this Lost forrest thing or old growth thing or MIT tech Analyzed tone ring. #3he never says his banjos are the prewar sounding banjos and got special fourmulas(although i think mine has a nice old tone to it). #4Price doesnt matter, Ive got a $200 JLS #4 in a 100 and it sounds just as good as any Dannick,Burlie,ETC!....Just ask the guys who have played it.#5 Arthur had just met me and Helped me in anyway he could and as i say over and over again he done a damn fine job! My Crowe with his no hole ring cuts a mic as a cleaver chops steak! How you ever dare to call Arthur Unprofessional i will never know!

"Surround Yourself With Good Muscians". -J.D Crowe
“Nobody is a legend, we all put our pants on one leg at a time.” - Sonny Osborne

Catching Second - Posted - 10/24/2009:  20:57:50

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All I can say is...

Cliff, if you think Arthur did anything negative to his business by his wording, what in God's name do you think you're doing to your business with your posts?

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

pipefitter61 - Posted - 10/24/2009:  21:22:43

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I got to play the new Huber up at Arthurs on Weds. Actually Arthur, Jerry Sloan, and I had it in 3 different banjos! All 3 had different reactions to the ring. All were favorable!!! One banjo was a bona-fide OPF pre-war, the other was a brkt/shoe conversion, and the 3rd was my Walnut Hatfield Custom. All 3 of the banjos took to the ring very well! I even had one of Steves very early prototype rings that Arthur owns in the same banjo, and compared sounds of both. There's definately something different about the new ring. Is it the end of the quest for tone rings? Not sure... Depends on YOU! I've heard a LOT of really, REALLY GOOD banjos out there! Interesting that a bunch of them had Huber rings in them! Go figure! A few of them had the ORIGINAL flathead ring in them. I'm not convinced that I've heard the very best one out there based on MY personal preferences, but there's always tomorrow! I also saw the new rim, and am interested in how it turns out in comparison. I hold Steve Huber in the highest regard, and greatly respect the amount of research, and $$$ he has invested. Some others proclaim themselves "builders", or "experts", and some just prove it! As far as "Not very professional" goes.... I don't see Arthur on BHO hawking every banjo that he completes, nor stating as fact that it's the best one ever in his shop! Now THAT I find HIGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL! Seems that some change direction of what is the "best" with the direction the wind is blowing that day!

dorse - Posted - 10/24/2009:  21:35:21

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Good post, pipefitter61.

--Dorse

mastertone250 - Posted - 10/24/2009:  21:49:39

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Ed has a way with words and Pipes Too:-))

"Surround Yourself With Good Muscians". -J.D Crowe
“Nobody is a legend, we all put our pants on one leg at a time.” - Sonny Osborne

jdluke - Posted - 10/25/2009:  00:20:14

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Hello guys ,

i think is time to stop any diatribe and to talk of the new Huber HR-30 again.
In my opinion this must be the only subject of conversation here and you are going out of theme.
The topic title is clear, it ěs not a tonering/builders comparisation.
Aren't you agree ?!!
I live in Italy and i own a Huber Lancaster , and of course i'm thinking on an upgrade with the HR-30 so if you want to help me talk about the ring only.
Beside i think every builder mentioned here worth respect, every.
And i'm sure nothing of them want to offend another.

Ciao Luca

Thank you !






Luca bononiagrass.it myspace.com/bononiagrass cdbaby.com/cd/bononia

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Edited by - jdluke on 10/25/2009 00:27:30