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oldthymedragon - Posted - 10/12/2009: 14:27:49
For many years now, I've been stuffing the back of my clawhammer banjo with a variety of things to dampen some of the unpleasant harmonics. I've tried a foam ball, a stuffed animal, and most recently have opted for a plastic bag. I'm just curious as to whether any of the rest of you stuff your banjos and, if so, what you stuff em with.
Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 10/12/2009: 14:36:24
I have used a small pillow on one Banjo, but the pad I used the longest was two pieces of foam. about 3/4" thick, as shown in this photo. It had the greatest effect directly under the bridge, and could be slid toward the neck if more volume was desired.
Since I recently changed to "Nylgut" strings, I no longer use the mute
Mutha
Edited by - Pluckin Mutha on 10/12/2009 14:38:49
rjanecek - Posted - 10/12/2009: 14:42:55
I let the banjo sound the way it was supposed to.. tried stuffing... But not any more..
Rick
KE - Posted - 10/12/2009: 15:01:15
There's an art, actually an experimental science, to stuffing. Try different materials with different thicknesses and locations until you get what you like -- or don't. If have one banjo that likes a particular artist sponge at the very back of the pot. A second that uses a thick rubber band doubled over exactly four times. A third uses a sock. A fourth and fifth that like nothing. Actually the fifth is a gourd and it's possibly stuffed with seeds and insects. 
harvey - Posted - 10/12/2009: 15:01:53
Welcome to the Hangout, oldthymedragon.
I have a rolled up sock that I slide under the bridge later at night, when I
don't want to disturb my neighbours. (I also own a mute, that I hardly use).
But I prefer the sound without too much stuffing.
tonehead - Posted - 10/12/2009: 15:17:08
A thrice folded JC Penney washcloth between the top rod and the head works for me.
Play it like you mean it.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/12/2009: 15:20:51
I never do that unless I want to really mute it for late-night practice or in a hotel on the road. I've found that tweaking my setup, and in particular using a bit of banjo head or foam adhesive tape on the 1st and 5th string bridge slots, gets rid of unwanted twang without deadening the tone. I play tone ring banjos because I want the punch and the volume; if I wanted something else, I'd have other banjos.
Bill
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 10/12/2009 15:21:44
banjo bill-e - Posted - 10/12/2009: 15:54:28
Yes, I'm a stuffer! I use a small dish towel, rolled up and placed at the pot/neck junction. I used to feel silly about it until I attended an Adam Hurt seminar! Adam gets a killer tone and he stuffs with a towel. So I can too! I would like to find something that looks a bit more elegant, but tone rules above all. From now on, I will take a towel with me when trying out banjos, because the change of tone is not subtle. I like loud, so I'm not trying for a mute. I just prefer the more focused tone of a properly stuffed open-back.
------------------
Bill
I'm trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I'm half way there!
rjanecek - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:13:37
what the hell is that?
Rick
rjanecek - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:14:14
maybe that would tame Craigs "monster"?
Rick
chip arnold - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:17:25
Real men don't stuff.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
pastorharry - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:32:27
Well, you'll get alot of people tell you you shouldn't stuff the banjo with anything, however Iv'e seen too many excellent players such as Adam Hurt, Cathy Fink, Reed Martin, Tim O'Brien, Abigail Washburn,and even the late great Bobby Thompson do it. I have a small wad of foam rubber under the tailpiece on my resonator banjo, and a small wad of foam rubber where the neck meets the pot on my openback. I just prefer the sound of my banjos with a very fundamental tone, I don't like excess sustain or echo, I don't want to overpower others instruments, but blend in.... I am obsessive on "MY" desired tone and this is what works best "FOR ME".  ......shall I make the popcorn now?? 
rjanecek - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:34:30
eddie aint stuffin now is he?
hes using new age technology!!!
quick, fill the patent and sell them!!!
Rick
Clawdan - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:36:11
A mute is a mute is a mute. If you prefer that sound, all is well, dare I say most folks I meet in the OT world stuff their banjos. I used to then found that a player whose sound and style I admired quite a lot (no, not Chip, but I DO love an admire his music and style) did NOT stuff their banjo. When I mentioned to him that I did it to cut some of the overtones, he said, "It's a banjo! Get used to the overtones!" I unstuffed at once, and lo and behold, the banjo had sound depth and overtones to love. To this day I do not stuff the banjo and have discovered the dynamics that exist in a real instrument such as the banjo.
My preferred sound does however lead me to prefer skin heads and the tubaphone style tone ring though my Chuck Lee has a Killer tone with a skin head and just a brass rod ring. Nothing like it!
Try both ways, decide for yourself, but I hope you decide you like the sound of your banjo.
And, hey, welcome to the hangout! Dragons is good people!
Play nice  ,
Dan "Ain't no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.Clawdan.com
Now teaching Clawhammer Banjo and Old Time Fiddle at San Diego Old Time Music
Get started with Dan's Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications) THEN:
Come to Clawcamp! www.ClawCamp.com
Edited by - Clawdan on 10/12/2009 16:36:51
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:41:43
It's a teeny tiny little housejack!
I use linen napkins. Shaping them and locating them is important too. In general I like the sound of a damped banjo better than one with nothing inside the head. I also prefer to have the sound more stacatto. At one time I used to stuff so hard that the banjo produced only a quick "Bip" sound - Probably a 32nd note overall. Eventually I grew tires of that sound but I could still see possibilities if one were recording.
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site
RG - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:48:29
An old ankle length athletic sock folded in 1/3rds and stuffed under the neck/pot joint...preferably washed...I don't stuff skin heads though, only ren's or otherwise...
******************************************************
"It's a league game Smokey..."
Edited by - RG on 10/12/2009 16:52:16
rjanecek - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:58:46
heres what I dont get about stuffing..
A "maker" puts his heart and soul into a build (or at least should) experiments with different woods, rings, bridges, heads,
etc, and what ever else and usually charges a good solid fee for doing so
Than you get this beautifully crafted banjo, and stuff it with an old sock, a sponge, or some other weird looking contraption!
dont get it...
Rick
pastorharry - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:03:36
I agree with Dan regarding a good skin head. When I had one on my banjo there was no stuffing needed when I could get the head nice and snug. My problem is I live in Hawaii a block and a half from the ocean,(wow, big problem Harry!! ).
Well, it is for a skin head as every week you have to tighten up some more and some more, until the stretcher band is sitting way below where it's supposed to be-not good. So, unfortunatly for me I have to go back to plastic heads and with that comes a little bit of stuffing for that tone "I" like.
One day I hope to be a "real man" like my two fingered collegue from the south!! Aloha y'all, PH
mojo_monk - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:14:36
I can really resonate with what Dan said. I tried stuffing when I first started a few years back (Goodtime w/rolled brass tone ring). Didn't know why...but everybody else was doing it, and who was I to go against the methods of my teachers? Well, after the first time I changed the strings I realized what I had been missing! Since then I've never felt the desire - especially once I scored a banjo with a skin head, 12" pot, and rolled brass tone ring. RING THE BANJAR!
(P.S. If banjos produced "pleasant" tones, we'd all be playing elevator/dentist office music)
Sean
http://www.dearoldillinois.com
Adventures in Haitian banjo building:
http://seanbarth79.webs.com
RG - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:26:56
Well Rick, since I'm the maker and put my heart & soul into what I build I can do whatever I want to get the sound I want...that's the American way...no right or wrong just what sounds good to you, got some that I stuff and others I don't...I tend to stuff for the first year or so until the banjo "comes" together (it does take a minute) and then decide what sounds best to me for what I'm playing, when I'm playing and who I'm playing with...horses for courses and courses for horses...I like 'em to sound different, don't want to own a dozen banjos that sound alike...
******************************************************
"It's a league game Smokey..."
Edited by - RG on 10/12/2009 17:31:00
pete hobbie - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:42:38
The best stuffing I've found is a folded up Crown Royal bag , been doing just what I like for ten years now in one banjo. That said ,there are some of my banjos that don't take any stuffing to get the sound they where made for. I've found that when in large jam situations it's polite to deaden the ring a bit so it doesn't get to out of hand ( talking about multiple banjo situations).
Pete
Things are more the way they are now than they've ever been.
Life is tough, it's even tougher if your stupid.
John Wayne
oldtimer - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:49:51
Almost all banjos are muted to control the big "too hollow" sound.
Bluegrassers mute by resting one or two fingers on the head, although most of them
don't know that they are muting when they do this.
Clawheads who rant against stuffing are usually muting by resting a bit of their
forearm on the head, although most of them don't know that they are muting
when they do this.
If you use an armrest for clawhammer and your arm doesn't touch the head, you
are likely to be a stuffer.
I have a large collection of experimental stuffer thingies that I have accumulated
over 50 years. On my Riley Baugus #24, I use a rolled up small plastic bag,
although Riley used a small sponge on the same banjo.
Also, Riley used to use a big triangle of duct tape on the underside of the head
before he started designing and playing his own banjos.
stay tooned....
Glenn Godsey
"Time passes unhindered"
rjanecek - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:54:27
quote:
Well Rick, since I'm the maker and put my heart & soul into what I build I can do whatever I want to get the sound I want...that's the American way...no right or wrong just what sounds good to you, got some that I stuff and others I don't...I tend to stuff for the first year or so until the banjo "comes" together (it does take a minute) and then decide what sounds best to me for what I'm playing, when I'm playing and who I'm playing with...horses for courses and courses for horses...I like 'em to sound different, don't want to own a dozen banjos that sound alike...
I actually agree with everything you said to be completely honest with you. I tried my best to come across with what my opinion was and still is. Your right in saying thats its the beauty of this thing of ours... No fault to anyone or anything and none intended by my remarks.. In my small stable each has their own voice and none are stuffed... For a small test. I just played my Tradesman for my wife "stuffed" and "un-stuffed" not knowing what I was doing different and she couldnt tell. But I think shes tone deaf anyway.... Rick
tanglefingers - Posted - 10/12/2009: 18:28:06
I used to stuff(mostly with a folded bandana), and tape and bluetak, leather thong wound in the strings ... whatever... now i am more determined to get good tone without stuffing if at all possible by extensive tweaking and changing of stuff. I find most of my banjos now play well with no stuffing or very minimal mods like wool on the strings below bridge.
We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it onto PEACE.
Micheal Franti.
XXXris - Posted - 10/12/2009: 19:05:00
quote:
I've found that tweaking my setup, and in particular using a bit of banjo head or foam adhesive tape on the 1st and 5th string bridge slots, gets rid of unwanted twang without deadening the tone.
Hey Bill: could you elaborate a little more on what you do here? what sort of banjo head do you use? I'm also in the "try not to stuff" camp. I have tweaked and tweaked and finally gotten the thing to sound nice without the sock. Also, I have a renaissance head, which is translucent, and it is embarrassing to see the sock through there!
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 10/12/2009: 19:21:49
I've used a dishtowel, a sock(washed), a possum hide and currently a piece of bubble-wrap. If I don't have to worry about volume, I don't stuff. Since I frequently don't get time to play untill someone is asleep, I have to keep the volume down. Now that the kids are grown that's less of a problem, but Mom is an "early to bed" type, while I tend to be more of a night owl. And as the saying goes, "If Mom ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!" So, stuffing happens.
Paul
"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/
Big Dan - Posted - 10/12/2009: 19:29:38
Does a tail piece remove some of these harmonics? I've often wondered why some open backs have a tail piece, where some are no-knots. And, why the banjos that have no-knots often tend to have scoops. I'd walk down to a music shop to find out, but living in NZ it's not an option.
Flailing since 2008
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/12/2009: 21:06:28
Much as I hate to provide the popcorn crowd with all that cholestorol and salt. I have to say, that I don't really give a dam how much heart and soul the builder put in to making my banjo - I bought it and I'll do as I like to it. If you don't want people to personalize their instrument, don't build banjos for others.
I know what sound I want from a banjo and except for my 13 inch skin headed banjo, that always means there is going to be some stuffing in the head. Even Jackie got a bit of stuffing when I used her to record stuff for my students.
If you like the sound of your banjo without stuffing that is fine with me. Just don't try to tell me what the banjo is "supposed" to sound like, because MY banjo is supposed to sound the way I want it to sound - period.
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site
erstokke - Posted - 10/12/2009: 23:22:43
My old Framus has so much unwanted overtones that it sounds out of tune. It needs stuffin.
I have experimented a little with my "new" Ome silverspun. With a renaissance head it got a lot of sustain and I thought it needed a little stuffing to control it. However, I have changed back to the Fiberskyn head - which is naturally stuffed so to speak. With the Fiberskyn head I dont need any stuffing.
Now I only use a small piece of plastic foam to keep the strings from resonating between the bridge and the no-knot tailpiece.
My banjo is pre-war. Pre the next war
Jan Erik from Norway
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/13/2009: 00:37:30
quote:
Originally posted by XXXris
quote:
I've found that tweaking my setup, and in particular using a bit of banjo head or foam adhesive tape on the 1st and 5th string bridge slots, gets rid of unwanted twang without deadening the tone.
Hey Bill: could you elaborate a little more on what you do here? what sort of banjo head do you use?
I'm also in the "try not to stuff" camp. I have tweaked and tweaked and finally gotten the thing to sound nice without the sock. Also, I have a renaissance head, which is translucent, and it is embarrassing to see the sock through there!
I have Renaissance heads on my banjos, cranked down pretty hard; I just got tired, years ago, of dealing with skin heads, though I do like their sound. Taking my cue from violins and early 20th c. makers, I use all-maple bridges. The little skin patches or tubing pieces violinists use also inspired me. I just soak a little piece of an old skin head in Titebond and fold it over the bridge slot, immediately popping the string back into place and reseating the skin piece while still wet with the glue. It sets hard, but gives that bit of damping needed to kill the excess ring I tend to hear on the 5th and often the 1st strings. Recently I've been using pieces of Nexcare brand "Absolute Waterproof" "Foam Premium Tape" from my local drugstore. Seems to work as well as the skin, and is a lot more convenient, though admittedly not as cool and definitely not organic. But I have a plastic head, so.... Bill
rjanecek - Posted - 10/13/2009: 04:56:46
quote:
Much as I hate to provide the popcorn crowd with all that cholestorol and salt. I have to say, that I don't really give a dam how much heart and soul the builder put in to making my banjo - I bought it and I'll do as I like to it. If you don't want people to personalize their instrument, don't build banjos for others.
I know what sound I want from a banjo and except for my 13 inch skin headed banjo, that always means there is going to be some stuffing in the head. Even Jackie got a bit of stuffing when I used her to record stuff for my students.
If you like the sound of your banjo without stuffing that is fine with me. Just don't try to tell me what the banjo is "supposed" to sound like, because MY banjo is supposed to sound the way I want it to sound - period.
Chuck, not to sound confrontational here, but did I suggest that? Its a forum. it was asked, I shared how I look at it and of course thats only how I look at it. Right wrong or other... My opinion only sir. I would never tell anyone what to do with THEIR banjo  Rick
R Buck - Posted - 10/13/2009: 05:34:08
I stuff one or two banjos and others I use nothing. A skin head usually does not need stuffing. Ren heads don't either. I knew a kid who practiced with socks in his banjo to keep it quiet around the house. He got on stage and forgot they were there. You could barely hear him. Counterproductive stuffing a banjo. It ceases to be what it is designed for.
RobBob
Music; the best way to count time. It is a journey not a destination.
www.blueridgerounders.com
ZEPP - Posted - 10/13/2009: 08:37:11
I don't stuff any of my banjos; I plays 'em as I finds 'em.
Cheers,
ZEPP
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 10/13/2009: 09:10:51
I have a sinus condition, and allergies.
My nose is ALWAYS stuffed.
So are my banjos...
Don't like it? Don't listen. Simple!
Best--
Ed Britt
••• A good fiddle tune will bring two or more people together who might otherwise be enemies. •••
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 10/13/2009 17:28:23
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 10/13/2009: 09:34:13
Ed - I think we can leave your nose out of the discussion, but I can't imagine anyone NOT liking your banjo!
I often mute mine around the house, I get used to it, then when I un-mute it (even though I leave it open back) it sounds really "clangy" to me for a while, but then I get used to THAT and it sounds even better than before. Then sometimes I put the resonator on and it sounds "cutting" again and full of overtones (not to mention loud), but then I get used to THAT and it sounds great again!
I am trying to say that to me, it's all so subjective, and my perception of what sounds good changes over time. Which doesn't help this discussion a bit...
Cheers,
Laurence
It takes a lot to laugh, but it takes a train to cry
CageyK - Posted - 10/13/2009: 12:18:13
Howdy,
Sometimes I stuff, somethimes I don't...depends how I feel that day.
Sometimes, instead of "stuffing", I "stuff and drape." Heard someone hear on the HO or Youtube describe it, but I don't remember who.
I'll take a kichen-towel sized cloth, and roll up the short edge (or from the corner) a bit, slip the rolled portion between the dowel and head near the neck, and drape the rest of the material along the underside of the head. It usually stays in place fine.
This seems to soften the tones a bit without much dampeining of volume.
Best,
CageyK
pastorharry - Posted - 10/13/2009: 12:40:35
Laurence hit on somthing I've noticed....our ears adjust to what we're hearing.This happens with guitars, banjos, everything for me.Even if I don't particularily care for the tone of an instrument, as I keep playing it my ears adjust,(along with technique) and it sounds better and better.
Also, Oldtimer had a good point about muting with our fingers or forearms. I can have a real clangy banjo that (to me) sounds horrible when I'm frailing, but when I plant my fingers for two or three finger style (sans picks still) it sounds like a different instrument....usually real good.
BTW; I wonder if horn players and drummers have these same discussions about "to stuff or not to stuff"?
Ronnie - Posted - 10/13/2009: 13:23:31
Yes they do. There are several types of mutes available for brass instruments and the drummers I know sometimes put towels or whatever inside their drums.
www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 10/13/2009: 17:50:07
quote:
Originally posted by pastorharry
Laurence hit on somthing I've noticed....our ears adjust to what we're hearing.This happens with guitars, banjos, everything for me.Even if I don't particularily care for the tone of an instrument, as I keep playing it my ears adjust,(along with technique) and it sounds better and better. ...
The good Pastor brings up a good point. An audio engineer would use the term, "psychoacoustics" -- the subjective perception of sound. I really began to notice the effect after switching between my Bluegrass banjo, (wearing picks) and my favorite clawhammer banjo -- while practicing for a gig. After playing clawhammer for a while, I picked up my BG banjo -- and it would sound SO freaking loud, and shrill. After practicing on it for about 40 minutes, it (and my playing) would sound just great, tonally. Then, I'd go back to my favorite clawhammer banjo... It seemed like had NO volume whatsoever -- and it's a loud OME Silverspun. It also felt like the strings were made of rubber. The tone sucked... But after playing it for 40 minutes, I was in heaven again -- as usual. Went to practice my last BG tune... and the "chainsaw banjo" was back. Your ears DO adjust to sounds. But they initially respond to the DIFFERENCES between sounds. When testing banjos for purchase, try to play one for at least 20 minutes, and get used to it, before grabbing another. Then do the same for that one. Best- Ed Britt ••• A good fiddle tune will bring two or more people together who might otherwise be enemies. •••
howseth - Posted - 10/13/2009: 18:18:00
Really great points Ed (and Pastorharry) about subjective hearing. I think this also influences string changes - you just keep adjusting your "psychoacoustics" as the strings change their sound with age.
Now, about stuffing one's banjos .... I am glad I do not need to do that with my current banjo ... but I have done it when I had sleeping guests, and wanted a quieter instrument; it sounded good stuffed - and I thought "Hey! maybe I will stuff it," but when I took out the stuffing it sounded even better.
Howard
sugarinthegourd - Posted - 10/13/2009: 18:30:16
A Sampson bridge (or other moderately large/heavy bridge) will tame some of the high-end "ring" at the source. It's also something I like about the Dobson tone ring -- it tames the high end a bit.
Win a FREE copy of the New Lost City Ramblers' 3-CD retrospective: http://sugarinthegourd.com
WGE - Posted - 10/14/2009: 03:43:45
I don't stuff my banjos. The combination of relatively loose skin heads, Sampson walnut bridges , and a felt patch on no-knot tailpieces takes out the unwanted overtones. With my Romero, a tight head really degrades the tone.
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