ATL newbie - Posted - 10/11/2009:  08:27:25

I'm new to the banjo and am trying to learn to play it myself. Unfortunately, the money for lessons just isn't in the budget so I'm looking for books, DVDs or videos. I've heard a lot about Scruggs' book and I saw something about the Murphy method. I will also look through the Learn To Play section here on this site. Any other advice??

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/11/2009:  08:34:54

I think it is easy to learn without a teacher. Folks will warn you about not practicing your mistakes but my work-around is to split your practice/learning immediately off the bat into two sections. One is learning righthand rolls, not licks. Spend a week or month getting your forward roll up-to-speed before you try doing anything real with it.

In the meantime, learn chords by strumming your way thru music books playing every song you've ever heard. By the time you get your roll up-to-speed, you'll already have played a hundred songs and things will come together for you much faster than if you spend the month trying to learn one or two specific bluegrass banjo breaks.

The Scruggs book is not good for beginners (unless you use it properly), but is good reading. If you get the book, pay attention to what Earl actually says. Practice this roll 10,000 times. He doesn't say practice this lick or this particular arrangement, he talks about practicing rolls.

I have beginner stuff on banjo and on music (you have to learn both at the same time if you are on your first instrument). The link is in my sig.

Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Edited by - minstrelmike on 10/11/2009 08:36:03

Hoss - Posted - 10/11/2009:  08:38:55

I'm a big fan of the Murphy Method as a way of getting up and running fairly quickly, but a banjo playing buddy of mine found the Murphy approach didn't do it for him - he used the Janet Davis books with considerable success. It really comes down to a difference in learning styles. Fortunately books and DVD's are relatively cheap so you can experiment a bit to see what works best for you and which instructor has the approach you find effective. Chances are you'll pick up something useful from just about any of them assuming you're prepared to put in the practice time.

Harry

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 10/11/2009:  08:41:12

Welcome to the Hangout ATL

I highly recommend the Murphy Method Beginner Banjo Vol 1 & 2 and Murphy's Vamping Beginning Banjo DVD's. They are not too expensive and are good value.

These three videos introduce you to the fundimentals of the Scruggs Style Banjo such as rolls, slides, hammer-ons, pull-off's, push-off's, pinches, tag licks and fill notes in a way that is clearly explained step by step. With close up views of the left hand fingering.

During the lessons you will learn how to construct licks from the basic elements and combine these licks together to form the music. Each tune on the DVD is a lesson in it's self and as you work through the DVD's you build on what you have already learned.

Murphy uses no TAB but instead encourages you to develope your ear for music so these DVD's are like gold dust to a beginner and will give you a jump start.

This short course won't turn you into an expert overnight but it will give you a good basic foundation from which to develop your playing skills. You will know how to assemble elements into licks and to combine those licks to make a tune. You will learn to identify licks by ear and get a sense of good timing and tone which will help you as you progress to the next skill level.

I struggled to learn from TAB in the very beginning but after working with the Murphy Method for eight months I switched to the Janet Davis' "Splitting the Licks" book and was amazed at how quickly I was able to identify 'by ear' the licks from the TAB so learning the tune became easier and quicker. In addition I was able to put away the TAB as soon as I had learned the tune and therefore didn't find the need to rely on the TAB for reference as is the case with many banjo players who started out learning from TAB.

Check out Murphy's website
http://www.murphymethod.com/categor...=1&cat=banjo

Regards Tam

Picking a Fender FB 58 and PROUD to describe myself as a Student of the Murphy Method

Edited by - Tam_Zeb on 10/11/2009 08:46:59

1four5 - Posted - 10/11/2009:  09:02:50

Find other musicians to jam with. It's really fun if you can find a friend or family member to take up another instrument and learn together. An hour with other musicians is worth 100 hours trying to decypher a book.

Dean

airborne - Posted - 10/11/2009:  09:10:51

when your a newbie and go out and find a banjo teacher how do you know if he or she is a good teacher, what ever they play will sound great to most beginner's, and they could be leareing the teacher's bad habits, how dos he know. i'd rather have my own bad habits than to pay some one good money to have his. i think that Hal Leonard banjo method book 1 a good book to start with

Edited by - airborne on 10/11/2009 09:17:54

gdoc - Posted - 10/11/2009:  09:20:02

Geoff Howald has a nice set of books out from basic beginner to advanced. Well worth the money. You can learn anything on your own, a teacher just makes learning faster because they help you avoid mistakes you might have to "un-learn", and besides, if they are a good teacher, they make it fun and motivate you. I also think the one thing that makes a banjo player advance the fastest is like 1four5 said... Jam with someone. He's right on there.

Also, I will buy any book if it even has only one song or item of interest.

gdoc

OldFox - Posted - 10/11/2009:  10:23:44

Tony Trischka's school of banjo is a good place to go if you have $60.00 for 3 months. One real advantage over just learning from a book is that you can hear how a real professional banjo player plays and you can play the lessons over and over. He starts off at a very low level too. If you can afford the three months, and only that long I would advise you to learn the rolls first. You can also submit videos (if you have the means to make them) to Tony for his evaluation and advice.

All the best and have fun,

OldFox

Every workplace should have a Banjo Break

george craciun - Posted - 10/11/2009:  10:31:17

ATL, I don't know your situation / location etc., but most if not all of those learn yourself books and videos are available free from most local libraries. Give it a try. I never had that resource available to me when I was learning (in ancient times). Actually, I ended up learning to play the 5 string without ever having had a single lesson. For me, best way to learn was / is to find a simple tune you like and can, by ear, work out the chords (only possible if you have a fairly good ear for music). Then jusy keep adding on some rolls, etc to slowly build up to s full playing of the tune. That is what I still do. The result will not be Scruggs style ; it will be your own style. I believe that Earl Scruggs developed his style in a similar manner. Of course listeneing to others playing often will help you get the "sound" you are looking for. Happy pickin'.

Back Porch Picker

Brian T - Posted - 10/11/2009:  12:00:41

I think that I've used the Scruggs book "properly." At the end of every line is the instruction: "Play Many Times". Just knuckle down and do it. 10X? 20X? The book is written in such a way that you really can't afford to skip ANYTHING.
I don't remember. I do remember setting the goal to play every line I had covered 5X before moving on to a new line. I decided that I would never get bored because I was doing this (banjo-pickin' thing) because I wanted to, not because I had to.

Some bits were real puzzles (one took a week) which I worked out simply by doing as I was told: "Play Many Times." I bought Ross Nickerson's JamAlong CD/DVD. While the speed was still a thing I am still in awe of, I got to watch him play, see what he did, and listen to the result. That helped with what I like to think of as "the sound".

Much to my delight, I'd covered some RH rolls and the left hand things (hammers, slides, pulls and pushes) when I flipped the page to Cripple Creek.
That's mundane to good pickers, perhaps, but it was enormously satisfying to get there with control over all the needed basic RH and LH moves.

We do not know where we are going.
Nor do most of us care.
For us, it is enough that we are on our way.
Le Matelot

pickingfive - Posted - 10/11/2009:  13:54:17

I suppose the thousands of great banjo pickers from the back hills of southeastern U.S. may have had "teachers" in the sense of a person or persons in their area who showed them somethings about "picking the five." However, from what I know, most of them learned on their own. I do believe an effective teacher is an asset. I also believe that playing and experimenting by one's self (and that includes about a million hours of practicing!!!) and picking with others are invaluable.
I failed to learn how to pick the five via tablature, but found The Murphy Method was the key for me. I do believe, however, there are a small percentage of people who are able to use tablature and jamming to learn how to "pick the five.."

pickingfive

Couchie - Posted - 10/11/2009:  14:04:55

I would agree that many old-timers didn't have money for lessons and just learned from whom ever was around at the time. Such was the case with myself. Luckily, I had many great musicians around me who were equally generous with their time and talent.

If you ask a good picker to show you a lick, he or she is more likely than not to oblige. God bless them for keeping the music alive.



Don.

O=='=(::}

http://www.doncouchie.com

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 10/11/2009:  14:49:55

Have you played another instrument in the past? Another string instrument? Do you listen to lots of bluegrass?

ATL newbie - Posted - 10/11/2009:  18:31:28

Wow. A lot of great advice. When I was a kid I took drum lessons for several years. I think the biggest thing about a lesson is it forced me to practice because I knew I had a lesson coming up. Learning at my own pace makes it easy to get lazy with practicing! As with most of us, busy lives tend to interfere with banjo time!

Anyway... many thanks to all for chiming in.

Julio B - Posted - 10/11/2009:  20:46:51

For many years I was self-taught.
I had an ignoramus for an instructor.
~Julio

CosmicMaskedAvenger - Posted - 10/11/2009:  20:54:35

Play everyday, even if it's just for 5 minutes.

I'm of the opinion one learns quicker with numerous short practices than with single long ones......for example if you have 2 hrs to practice a day, I think you learn more with 4 - 30 minutes sessions than 1 - 2 hr session. JMO.

Deering Sierra
Deering Goodtimes

mdgodaat - Posted - 10/12/2009:  03:25:48

I'm with you on the budget and trying to decipher books and other peoples interpretations.

There's a ton of free stuff available online from clips to samples to actual lessons covering everything from beginning to advanced.

If you have an ear for music and learning go online. After a while you'll know where you have rough spots to work out with the help of who or whatever.

Get the basics and learn them and progress will come.

Remember, it's in your heart, not your head.

Bluegrass in my blood. Now, if I can only get it to my fingers ?

bandzo - Posted - 10/12/2009:  04:10:25

Most of those "free" lessons you find are crap and are used to lure you into buying something. :)
There are some really good pages where the word "free" has not lost its meaning.
For example http://davidcavage.blogspot.com/200...archive.html (scroll down and start from the beginning)
For more advanced stuff see this index page for LOTW http://www.jsutergraphix.com/LOTW/




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - *
Banjo picking is like golf, once you are hooked, you are hooked for life.
Bang Bang...

ATL newbie - Posted - 10/12/2009:  09:55:50

Well, there's certainly enough on there to keep someone busy for a while! He's got like 100 videos on there. Thanks.

hobogal - Posted - 10/12/2009:  10:22:02

Personally I wouldn't recommend the Scruggs book for a complete beginner - you need to buy the recordings to hear how he plays the songs that are in the book as they are not on the cd and I think you will encounter timing issues etc. I'd go for anything by Janet Davis or Eddie Collins (the latter is good because you will learn both lead and backup from the start. Both have follow-on intemediate books once you have mastered the first level). The Hangout is great for finding free tablature too.

Happy pickin'

Hobogal

555Glenn - Posted - 10/12/2009:  14:20:30

Try www.banjoacademy.org



Check Out www.TheBluegrassAcademy.com

Stutts - Posted - 10/12/2009:  16:46:15

I started off learning classical guitar over 30yrs. ago with the Frederick Noad book because I couldn't afford a teacher. He emphasized starting off with correct technique. I followed that from the word go. It felt weird but I kept at it. Getting that down I made all the mistakes I mention below but when a few years later I enrolled in the Sydney conservatory of music and took up with a teacher, I at least didn't have a bad technique problem that I had to unlearn. That was a big plus as poor technique leads to technical problems for one or both hands later on when more difficult pieces are attempted.

The biggest problem with regard to teachers apart from being affordable, is finding a good one local. Many teachers are self-taught and you can quite easily learn very hard to reverse bad habits. The big thing is to do heaps of research into good and efficient technique for the style of playing that attracts and concentrate on that first off above all else. For both hands too not just the picking hand.

It's really worthwhile to think a lot about the most efficient way to fret a piece and mark it on the tab [play it that way every time]. Keeping the thumb on the neck where the end of the fingers can cleanly fret a string might feel awkward at first [thumb toward the middle of the back of the neck mostly], but long term it's a winner as is supporting the neck between the legs or with a strap. The left hand should not support the neck [it has enough to do].

I think getting muscle memory down with good technique using very simple pieces played in time is the most important thing as is concentrating on the hardest parts until they can be played with correct timing [ignore the urge to speed things up as timing creates 'music', even when it's slow]. Any beginner can do that for free from the net. From then on there is heaps of tab available to suit rising ability level.

Keeping within ability level without moving on to pieces [before mastering the easier ones] that the player is not ready for is probably the biggest self-taught problem. Avoid that and your on your way. Put the money saved on teachers toward a better future banjo!

A 'good' teacher is a great help, but not everyone can afford one or even find one depending on where they live [no banjo players around here, let alone a teacher].

Edited by - Stutts on 10/12/2009 17:27:35

dgill - Posted - 10/12/2009:  17:39:34

I have been told not to limit yourself. Use several methods if you can. Many are out there for free or very low priced. I agree with some of the methods above and have used, the Murphy Method and Janet Davis books/DVS's. I also have an instructor and all of these options are good ones.
I do want to give the Banjo Academy a big shout out for the value. It is available for as many hours per day as you want to practice and is very well supported. Give it a try if you can.

Deaf David - Posted - 10/12/2009:  20:27:13

I also have no teacher--because I'm paying for my kids to have teachers and driving them to lessons and don't have time to fit in lessons or even regular practice time for myself. That said, I have a few points to add.
1) If you took drum lessons you have a big head start. A banjo is a snare drum with a neck. You are learning to do paradiddles with your right hand while making simple chord shapes with your left hand.

2) We all have our own learning style. I personally don't benefit from the Murphy Method at all. Others do. I need a combination of listening to the tune AND looking at the tab. I found the Janet Davis "You Can Teach Yourself" banjo book to be the most helpful when I was starting out. Compared to lessons, the amount of time you will spend learning from that book is a very good deal.

3) Find someone else who plays banjo. Even if all you can do is go watch/listen to them play, pay close attention to their technique.

4) Assume you will spend hours doing repetitions. Muscle memory for your fine motor skills is essential. Think of the licks as pieces in a leggos set. You can pull the pieces out and piece them together in an almost infinite variety of ways. I don't know off hand how many licks there are in Foggy Mountain Breakdown, but it isn't many.

5) Figure out the basic I,IV, V form and you can figure out just about any variation of it

6) Most important of all: Have fun. If it isn't fun, you are doing it wrong. Don't just "practice." Doodle/Noodle. Just sit and watch TV and fool around with rolls, licks and making stuff up that sounds good. Sit with the banjo in your lap until it feels like it belongs there and your hands know their own way around the thing.

________________________________________________

It's never a good sign when the musician introduces the song by saying, "See if you can tell what this is."
________________________________________________

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 10/12/2009:  21:10:20

Good points... especially the ones about not practicing mistakes.. They become ingrained also(but first you need to know what they are!).

But one of the most important things to do is ... A LOT OF LISTENING.. Over and over on one tune until your practically sick of it and then you can try to play it.. But you will reconize some of the notes and associate them with the position on the neck.. As you progress you reconize more and more, until... presto someday, you can hear it and play it...

KL

Edited by - Kenneth Logsdon on 10/12/2009 21:11:16

bandzo - Posted - 10/13/2009:  06:57:27

ATLnewbie, you can use Skype for lessons. It will cost you less than face to face lessons and you do not have to waste time for driving (or flying).
I take lessons from a guy who is located 8140 km (5058 miles) away from my house ;)


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - *
Banjo picking is like golf, once you are hooked, you are hooked for life.
Bang Bang...

Couchie - Posted - 10/22/2009:  07:05:14

I forgot to mention that after many years of self-teaching, I finally took up with a classical guitar teacher who re-vitalized my interest in music and took me down a path I never would have found on my own.

I guess there is something to be said for both methods of instruction.

Don.

O=='=(::}

http://www.doncouchie.com

Flying Eagle - Posted - 10/22/2009:  14:43:59

In addition to availing yourself of all the free resources available on the internet, library, etc, I would recommend that you save up some $$ and contact Jody Hughes. He's in the ATL and is an excellent teacher/instructor.

There is no substitute for a live instructor.