|
Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link.
Page: 1 2
rstieg - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:30:19
I always vamp when I sing and that seems to work just fine. I've occasionally tried some roll backup while singing, which is harder, but I think I could probably learn to do that if I worked at it a bit. However, I really don't think I could learn to play melody while singing, or at least not without a very substantial effort.
RICH
Pleasanton, CA
The truth is a moving target... perception is more important than reality... everything is relative...
Ks_5-picker - Posted - 10/12/2009: 16:46:40
I don't think the goal should be to play melody or to play "licks"while singing. You need to BACK UP your singing.A simple fwd roll is really sufficient and if you can do fills at the ends of the phrases,so much the better.
Rod
Here's some music you might enjoy.
cdbaby.com/cd/roddurst
tinychat.com/banjolounge Come on in an enjoy!
pick1936 - Posted - 10/12/2009: 17:46:01
A Great Mo. Banjo picker, (Danny Hopkins) Can Sing Lead,, and Pick Lead at The same time, Fast, or Slow, The only one I know of, But I'm sure there are others who can do that also.
(Cowboy In Town, Trouble Expected)
Nechville. In Higginsville.
Lee Kelso
pickingfive - Posted - 10/12/2009: 18:12:47
I have no problem singing most of the songs I have learned. However, there are a few where I have trouble keeping the lyrics going and the picking going at the pace both should be going!!! For example, I am learning "Nine Pound Hammer," and have trouble keeping the lyrics going at the pace I should sing them. I have also been learning "Salty Dog" but have no trouble singing and picking at the same time.
pickingfive
pick1936 - Posted - 10/12/2009: 18:36:00
pickingfive, Are You pickin straight Lead while Singing?? I can pick Nine pound Hammer,, and Sing it,, But not at the same time, wish I could,, If I sing it, play Guitar, But Not Lead Guitar, Just Chording, and some runs.
anyway
(Cowboy In Town, Trouble Expected)
Nechville. In Higginsville.
Lee Kelso
pickingfive - Posted - 10/12/2009: 19:18:07
Lee: Yes, I am picking straight lead when I sing. And, I think your question is a good one, as it made me think of something that may be related to rvrose's question that started this thread.
He said ". . . maybe I'm just not wired for it?"
That made me think of my total failure to learn how to pick the banjo back in the 1970's, when I spent 2 1/2 years practicing rolls and fretting and using tablatures in an attempt to learn how to pick bluegrass music. After 2 1/2 years, all I had to show for it was to be able to pick "Cripple Creek," and one had to have a good imagination and be kind to recognize I was playing "Cripple Creek."
The banjo went into storage after those 2 1/2 years, as I thought I simply did not have the abilities it took to pick the five.
Then, in 2005 when buying a CD from Ralph Stanley prior to his show here in Wichita, I told him of my failure to learn how to pick, and asked him if some people simply do not have the abilities required in order to learn how to pick. His answer was "YOUR EAR IS YOUR TEACHER." That prompted me to get the Murphy Henry Vol. 1 Beginning Banjo tape off the shelf, and give it a try. I learned more in one month from that tape using my ear as my teacher than I did in 2 1/2 years of practicing rolls and using tablature.
So, I am wondering when a person has trouble picking and singing at the same time - and that does include me on some songs, including "Nine Pound Hammer," if perhaps one is not "trying too hard" or in other words THINKING too much rather than just letting the sounds be one's guide and teacher.
pickingfive
dpete210 - Posted - 10/12/2009: 19:54:29
This question has generated quite a few comments and I've never really given it a lot of thought before reading through the comments here. I started playing guitar (chords) in high school and would sing along as I chorded the songs, so it became second nature for me. It took me a while to get comfortable playing banjo and singing when I first started playing banjo a few years ago. At home it was not a big problem, but when I'd play with others, and had to be in sync with the others playing, I knew I had to work on getting the banjo timing down. One thing that helped me was to record a song with a guitar then play it back and sing along while playing the banjo. It takes effort to get the rolls or vamping in sync with the voice and rest of the band. So if you are having trouble, you are not alone. When I started messing around with a bass guitar a few years ago I found it challenging to sing lead and keep a steady beat going, but the more familiar I get with the tune, the more comfortable I get. Pretty soon it goes just fine. Since I don't play dobro as often as I do guitar and banjo, I get a familiar uncomfortable feeling when we want dobro in a song that I will lead or do some harmony on and play dobro. It takes time and repetition to feel comfortable. I do not play an instrumental lead while I am the lead singer, but I do take breaks between if called upon. I sympathize with those who struggle to play and sing because it does take time to get to that comfort zone. Practicing a lot helps immensely. A friend who is a pretty good dobro player and who has played for years will often not play while singing, so it is not just something that newer players face. I believe the key is to keep doing it, don't hide from it. Think about what a piano player goes through when playing bass notes with the left hand, melody with the right, reading notes with the eyes, and singing while playing. It is absolutely amazing what the brain can be trained to do! Keep at it and have fun! You'll eventually get there. If you are able to, record yourself so you can play songs back at a later date and hear your progress. You will get better 
Any day playing music is a GOOD day. 
Edited by - dpete210 on 10/13/2009 10:24:31
RMH - Posted - 10/12/2009: 20:05:37
I'm wierd. I can sing and play rolls, licks, fills, etc. No problem. When I try to vamp and sing I lose it. Yes, I can strum a guitar and sing. It makes no sense at all.
Ron
RyanHerr - Posted - 10/13/2009: 05:59:06
Here is the John Hartford quote from Masters of the 5-String Banjo that I mentioned earlier:
"I started working on a style which would be a picking style that you could sing with, very much the way you do with frailing, that wouldn't be the closed chord backup. It would have a full sound but, but at the same time would employ a thumb and two finger picks. A fingerpicking style what would utilize the elements of clawhammer and/or Scruggs picking or whatever you want to call it. What I came up with was a kind of four-beat roll but it was applied kind of like a frail. When I would sing I would do that, and then I would take a break and just pick."
-Ryan.
Ks_5-picker - Posted - 10/13/2009: 19:03:52
quote:
[i]
A Great Mo. Banjo picker, (Danny Hopkins) Can Sing Lead,, and Pick Lead at The same time, Fast, or Slow, The only one I know of, But I'm sure there are others who can do that also.
Lee Kelso
Lee,I know Danny quite well and have jammed with him on many occasions.He doesn't "play lead and sing at the same time",not because he couldn't do it,but because you just don't do that,not if you're good at bluegrass music.To play lead means to play the melody,and a good banjo player won't do that over someone's singing. Danny's a friend of mine,and a great picker and a great guy.He just plays tasteful backup while he,or anyone else is singing. Rod Here's some music you might enjoy. cdbaby.com/cd/roddursttinychat.com/banjolounge Come on in an enjoy!
connerspur - Posted - 10/14/2009: 09:23:22
For the longest time, I'd Vamp while I sang. I recorded one of our gigs and sent one of the songs to a buddy to critique my playing - he responded and added "do you always vamp when you sing" - that did it for me - I started practicing rolling while singing - it took me a while to do it, but I roll now while I sing, with very little licks happening ;) - It's a mental thing, more than anything else - it also helped me to improve my backup behind fiddle, believe it or not. During my practice sessions, I work on putting simple licks in the rolls when singing. It'll take some time, but, I think it's worth the effort. Good Luck!!
David
pick1936 - Posted - 10/14/2009: 10:40:43
Rod, He Might not do it now,, BUT He did in mid 70's I have a Cassette where He sings lead, and Picked Lead at the same time, and did a very good job, That was then, This is now..
Pick What You Like.
Like What You Pick,
Nechville. In Higginsville.
Lee Kelso
Tommy5 - Posted - 10/14/2009: 15:57:11
I don't play in band so usually i do a square roll back up to my own singing when performing, then a lead break, then sing a second verse or chorus with an up the neck vamp, another break, more square roll back-up with some fill in licks, playing a lead and singing a lead doesn't sound quite right.
flake - Posted - 10/15/2009: 11:08:36
I don't have a choice.....I'm the banjo player. So if I'm singing lead, it doesn't excuse me from my banjo duties......nobody else is going to do it.
If I quit playing, we suddenly become a three-piece, and that doesn't wash.
And it's just my opinion, but "Come Back Darling" suddenly becomes nothing more than really fast folk music if the banjo drops out for 8/10s of the song.
mike
You can't ride home on a bowl of goat. I've always said that.
stelling man - Posted - 10/15/2009: 15:13:58
Yes I can, all It takes Is a little practice, I also played Electric bass In different country bands for over 35 years and sang In all of them..
STELLING MAN
burlap - Posted - 10/17/2009: 03:23:32
If you REALLY want to practice multi-tasking while playing the banjo.....try picking a tune and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at the same time (or, for our International friends;-), some other familiar oration).
Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 10/17/2009: 11:15:08
????Can't sing period! Thats why I play the banjo! Everything else someone expects you to sing one!
KL
ELSOL102 - Posted - 10/20/2009: 00:36:08
Singing and playing takes practice. If you want to do it start with something simple.
Beth
gdoc - Posted - 10/20/2009: 01:11:16
silly rabbet..... your not allowd to sing and play... it's against the rules
gdoc
pick1936 - Posted - 10/20/2009: 09:03:38
I'm saying,, Lead Pickin, While Singing Lead,, Not talking about Vamping, and a Lick once and awhile, I'm talking Lead,, hammers,, slides,, pull offs,, string bending, (FULL LEAD),,,, (FULL SINGING)...
(Cowboy In Town, Trouble Expected)
Nechville. In Higginsville.
Lee Kelso
ac5aa - Posted - 10/20/2009: 11:30:25
Well, I've been encouraged that maybe I can get there from here. Since I'm the lead singer in our band, when I switch from guitar to banjo I've just been vamping, which sounds boring after a short while. I can play and sing "Salty Dog" with licks, and driving/rolling backup on the chorus, but that took forever to learn. So, maybe that says if I just keep on practicing it, I'll cach on and get better at it. Thanks!
Duane C.
Sullivan Greenbrier, Gibson RB-250
5strbanjo - Posted - 10/20/2009: 12:04:07
I can play an intro, sing while strumming, then play another solo between verses, then strum while singing, etc., but that's it...
gradelyduck - Posted - 10/20/2009: 12:38:56
After experiencing my first jam l decided I needed some singing practice, it's a pity the towel in the aperture doesn't work for muting, anyway I found I can frail away gaily at top pace and sing, almost in tune. However I can only pick slow songs and sing without stumbling at one or t'other.
Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so. D Adams Hitchhiker's Guide
Helix - Posted - 10/23/2009: 23:13:07
Why do you want to do it?
I don't vamp, I frail, it fits perfectly; for emphasis, I go to clawhammer, for solos I use 3-finger.
so for me it's a matter of blend with the other bandmates. Are we harmonizing "goin' down that road feelin' bad." Call and response.
"Cole Younger" has great potential for carving harmonies, carving is where you don't sing every note, just the last line or alternating lines, gives the lead support.
But when I'm crankin'..... I was told someone 'seen' me; so I guess I do, with modesty, sing and play lead at the same time.
As far as the neurological thing, I think I matured, but since 2005 I no longer look at the fretboard, I just make eye contact. I use my peripheral vision to get there, the stuff we're playin' ain't that hard, so memory from your back muscles enters in.
I've heard people say they float about or leave their bodies, or stand next to themselves, beside themselves on stage. I don't find that necessary.
So,, I think we're all wired for it, it's just a path.
helixbanjos.com
(_)===='===::}
John3 - Posted - 10/25/2009: 22:24:06
I have noticed that when i sing while playing, my banjo playing is less technical. Its hard to consintrate on every roll pattern while remembering words.
Bateaux - Posted - 10/29/2009: 18:14:38
I can't sing to save my life, but recently I've started giving it a whirl while frailing. While I sound dreadful, it's helping me slow down, stay in rhythm and emphasize the melody notes. And it's almost too much fun!
Bateaux - Posted - 10/29/2009: 18:15:57
AND I'm almost singing in tune now (almost!)
barbbanjo - Posted - 10/29/2009: 22:26:32
Sometimes I challenge myself to play a tune and talk to my husband or a grand child at the same time. Learning to do anything while you are playing is good because your mind learns to go into auto mode. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
All the flowers of all the tomorrows are in the seeds of today.
MikeR - Posted - 10/29/2009: 23:15:53
Well I can't sing worth a dang either, but I sure can't do it when I'm picking. But that is a good excuse to not sing when others are trying to get you to. I'm sure they would rather hear my banjo over me anyway..
Mike Robbins
Yates Rattlesnake #21
heavythumb - Posted - 01/29/2010: 07:19:22
Don Stover told me to learn to sing while you are playing lead; so I did. It actually makes me focus on playing more melody notes and keeping perfect time.
Unfortunately, my vocal skills are only slightly better than my artistic skills; and I can't draw a straigh line without a rule. :)
YMMV
Julio B - Posted - 01/29/2010: 09:25:35
Yes. Around these parts, it's almost required to be considered for playing in a band.
~Julio
pasturepicker - Posted - 01/29/2010: 09:52:34
When singing and playing backup while performing, you need to make a concious effort not to look down at the neck. When you look down your mouth goes out of the vocal mic and the volume of your singing drops off. For me this is the hardest part of singing while playing.
spaz - Posted - 01/29/2010: 10:26:01
for a long time i figured i simply could never play and sing at the same time (attempts to do so resulted in howling coyotes, screaming fire engines and alienation from friends and family..). however lately i've been making an effort to at least try it.. some on guitar (where its relatively easy now) and some on bainjer (where clawhammer seems easier than 3-finger while singing). I still cant do it very well, however, i can do it better than i once could, which to me implies that it may only be a question of practice..
i think there is a nice side-effect to singing and thats that you get familiar with the melody. i cant tell you how many times i heard a song just played on banjo and i didn't 'get it'... but when someone sang it, a light went on and i was, AH, OK, so thats how it goes.. and it made playing it almost immediately easier. In addition, if you cant pick while singing, even strumming while singing forces you to know/remember the chords. i realized at some point that there are songs i know how to pick, but i dont know what the corresponding chords are.. thats kind of stupid.. .. you need those chords if you'll ever play backup and even if you want to improvise a bit..
more of my 22c... 
Ronnie - Posted - 01/29/2010: 11:22:48
I CAN in a pinch, , but I prefer to let someone with a better voice do the singing.
ocbgrass - Posted - 01/29/2010: 12:18:51
I sing and play all the time . It's easier on guitar than banjo , but I happen to be the banjo player in the band . So it's something I've had to work at. You have to learn not only the words and melody and phrasing to a song, but also the kickoffs , breaks endings , etc.
I try to keep it simple with some forward rolls and fill in licks while singing . It's a little difficult sometimes , but there aren't many things I love to do as much playing and singing.
Grumpy1 - Posted - 01/29/2010: 12:53:24
Since I've aged, I've lost a great deal of voice quality so have to really dig deep to sing. Being a novice and less than relaxed at banjo I just can't do it. Going to buy me a banjitar for times when I want to sing and still get a, somewhat, banjo sound. Don't play for money or such so doesn't really matter in my case.
pick it - Posted - 01/29/2010: 14:51:51
Dave Evans does it about as good as anyone I've seen
mdgodaat - Posted - 01/31/2010: 05:20:40
No... next question. I think attempting to drive a car and text while playing would be easier...
JC1708 - Posted - 01/31/2010: 06:23:51
I have a real hard time at doing that..lol
tombrien - Posted - 01/31/2010: 07:43:57
I can sing and play, but sometimes have to do an easier picking pattern on the tune if I don't know it real well, Tom
Unplugged - Posted - 01/31/2010: 07:56:57
quote:
Originally posted by ocbgrass
I sing and play all the time . It's easier on guitar than banjo , but I happen to be the banjo player in the band . So it's something I've had to work at. You have to learn not only the words and melody and phrasing to a song, but also the kickoffs , breaks endings , etc.
I try to keep it simple with some forward rolls and fill in licks while singing . It's a little difficult sometimes , but there aren't many things I love to do as much playing and singing.
Same situation for me. And add to your list of things you have to do all at the same time is directing traffic during the song, as in who gets a break and when.  Also I found that going directly from singing to a banjo break (or vice versa) was a huge challenge. Must require switching to different brain hemispheres. It took me a while to start to get it down (I pretty much just vamp while singing), but it's a really, really good "problem" to have. Steve
Boog - Posted - 04/01/2010: 21:20:08
youtube.com/watch?v=ad3B4UZGBWM
... I just kept at it and can now "detach" my voice from my hands. I sang this way to fast and had to sing "Frisco" bay instead of San Francisco bay.
Anyway, all I can say is just keep at it
banjer5 - Posted - 04/02/2010: 06:33:35
I cant play while singing except to vamp. My wife insists I am unable to multitask.......perhaps she is right.
Rusty - Posted - 04/02/2010: 12:17:33
Just keep working at it and it will eventually work for you!
donc - Posted - 04/02/2010: 21:03:28
I just don't sing. Ever since elementary school where we were forced to sing solos and crappy songs. I learned to hate singing. I do love to hear others sing. I thank god that I have two hands , a banjo, and others around me who like to sing.
fixdent - Posted - 04/03/2010: 06:12:21
I sing with the guitar.....but can't with the banjo (don't want to)
--
Gordon
Paul R - Posted - 04/03/2010: 18:10:35
I sang with guitar from the beginning, so there was no thought, and therefore no worries, when it came to singing with the banjo. Of course, the songs were simple. One of the first was "Penny's Farm", also "Sail Away Ladies" - songs that lent themselves well to singing with kids. Early on I led a choir in a Beach Boys song, directing with banjo. It apparently went over well with the superintendent of music for the school board, but I think he was referring to the vocal performance. I doubt he knew anything about banjo!
It seems that some of the difference here is that some players come from an instrumental background, where breaks are featured, and others come from songs. I'd imagine that people who began with singing would be more at ease. I enjoy good vocals, especially with harmony. For some, it's just a lack of comfort with singing.
Also, when you're commited to sing at church, and you're never sure how many in the group will show up, you'd better be prepared to sing, and be loud enough to lead the community, whatever your instrument. That'll get you singing for sure!
feldspar1333 - Posted - 04/03/2010: 19:05:11
Yes... both at my mediocre level. Page: 1 2
|
Feeds
