rvrose - Posted - 10/09/2009:  18:49:45

---

I can sing or play - but I can't seem to do both at the same time. Anyone else have that problem? Other guys in the band do it - but not me. Is it just a banjo thing or maybe I'm just not wired for it?

Rick

xenophone - Posted - 10/09/2009:  18:53:19

---

I can't either, though I know it can be done. I actually bought a guitar recently and don't seem to have any problem singing and strumming away, even though I'm much better on the banjo.

1four5 - Posted - 10/09/2009:  18:59:10

---

I can't sing, even when I'm not playing. I still try, and work on it a lot (when I'm home alone). Playing and singing at the same time just aint happening. I still try. But not ready for prime time... maybe Americas funniest home videos...

Dean

CosmicMaskedAvenger - Posted - 10/09/2009:  19:03:42

---

I can with guitar, with the banjo....it's harder for me because I'm relatively new on banjo.

rvrose - Posted - 10/09/2009:  19:10:03

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by xenophone

I can't either, though I know it can be done. I actually bought a guitar recently and don't seem to have any problem singing and strumming away, even though I'm much better on the banjo.

---

Yes I know what you mean - I have found that I can strum my banjo and sing - but I just can't pick a roll for anything. But, I can pick my nose and sing.
Rick

Stutts - Posted - 10/09/2009:  19:19:55

---

It's hard to sing along with banjo as it's a melodic instrument. A guitar sounds good strummed and is ideal to sing along with easily, but a banjo sounds pretty crappy strummed because a guitar has plenty of sustain, a banjo doesn't.

I think it's a good idea with banjo to start singing from the word 'go' when beginning as Costello recommends from the first tune for the beginner on his beginner CD, 'Boil them cabbage down'. He certainly has a point as most banjo players get tied up in playing and forget the singing part.

If we ignore the singing from when we first start on the banjo, we have lots of trouble with singing when we want to later. We are just not used to it and it throws us out.

---

Edited by - Stutts on 10/09/2009 19:25:44

bulland - Posted - 10/09/2009:  19:20:08

---

That is something thing comes to you when are so comfortable with playing that you are not giving it much thought. It just gradually becomes natural. I think it is important to be able to do it, as you can't have the banjo dropping out when you sing the lead. I have seen it happen on stage and there is a definite void.

bulland

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/09/2009:  19:35:04

---

I have no trouble singing with the banjo. I simply have trouble singing at all.

Bill

Banjov1 - Posted - 10/09/2009:  19:47:20

---

It's not a natural thing but I've worked at it and I can sing and play. Usually I defer to others in the band/jam, but once in a while it comes in handy to belt out the lead vocals for a tune or two.

Tony

steve davis - Posted - 10/09/2009:  20:09:36

---

I can barely sing when I sing.

kcjc69 - Posted - 10/09/2009:  21:28:21

---

I'm with ya, it's one or the other but both at the same time ain't happenin.

.

Faith, Family, Football and picking the banjo could life be any better?

Want a quality built banjo or individual instruction? bennettsmusicstudio.com
Need a website for your band? designsbydorothy.com/

PaulKirby - Posted - 10/09/2009:  21:30:08

---

I sing lead and play, and although it goes pretty well sometimes, I am not surprised that it's not usually the way things are in a bluegrass band. For me the key is hooking up my right hand to my mouth so that I consciously set the words on a corrresponding pick-stroke. The key is being able to enlarge your perspective enough so that it's not 'singing and playing' but 'singingplaying'.

But when I first started, my wife (also a professional musician, who has heard me sing for years) walked into the room and said 'you know, when I hear you do that I would never guess that people pay you lots of money to sing.' That was before the 'playingsinging' idea came. The bass player and I were working in a new fiddle player a few weeks back and I played the guitar while singing, and BOY WAS THAT EASY!

kateyzbb.com/
americanmadebanjo.com/

Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. Great dancers are not great because of their technique, they are great because of their passion.
--Martha Graham

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 10/09/2009:  21:32:38

---

Yes, I can. But I'm a professional. Don't try this at home!

;^)

BPDye - Posted - 10/09/2009:  21:43:14

---

Yes. I don't sing well, but it does not keep me from doing so. I enjoy singing (I may be the only one who enjoys my singing). Singing with the banjo helps me with my playing.

Barry

tinkersdam - Posted - 10/09/2009:  23:02:48

---

Singing while playing banjo, guitar, piano...whatever... just isn't going to happen. My brains says "take your pick, one or the other...I ain't made to do both!"

Hard as I've tried... I cannot do both unless I'm just playing simple chord strums...not rolls. I play piano in a church choir too...and can't sing along no matter how well I know the hymn. My fingers start banging clinkers as soon as the mouth starts singin'. Seems I can't be of a 'divided mind'.

I'm not much of a singer anyway...my vocal range is just too short before my voice breaks...or I start coughing. When I'm working out a song, though... I tend to 'da-da-dum' my way through while picking out notes in the melody and whatever embellishments I'm trying to fit in it. That's about as close as I can get to 'singingplaying'.

However, I do admire those of you who can multi-task so well.


Dee


I can get 'er up to 120.... but any more than that and I'm gonna be roadkill on the bluegrass highway.

snapjackson - Posted - 10/09/2009:  23:50:53

---

Playing clawhammer & singing...no problem
Playing 3 finger & singing...not so easy.

myspace.com/snapjacksonmusic myspace.com/thesecondstringquintet

airborne - Posted - 10/10/2009:  00:24:48

---

I can sing and pick, it take's some practice, but the one thing i have a problem with is standing and picking, most of the time im siting at a jam.

Stutts - Posted - 10/10/2009:  00:41:41

---

I'm a hopeless singer but no one listens anyway, so who cares?

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 10/10/2009:  01:08:14

---

I have been told that it is an advanced skill to sing and play banjo at the same time however with practace most people can sing and strum or chop chords. ie maintain rhythm

Regards Tam

Picking a Fender FB 58 and PROUD to describe myself as a Student of the Murphy Method

airborne - Posted - 10/10/2009:  02:40:58

---

im no way advaned, i have to sing songs like rocky top or nine pound hamer at the jam's i go to because nobody know's the lyic's and i love playing them.

john.

mdgodaat - Posted - 10/10/2009:  03:43:37

---

Singing while vamping or chucking is one thing, if you like to sing when you play. But three finger picking whilst trying to sing is not in my bag of tricks.

Kinda like trying to walk, chew gum and hold in a good fart all at the same time.

Something's gonna give somewhere.

Bluegrass in my blood. Now, if I can only get it to my fingers ?

Kevin B - Posted - 10/10/2009:  03:59:52

---

I can sing lead and play at the same time. Singing harmony backup while playing doesn't work well for me though.

Kevin ( )=='=~

'Possum, It's what's for dinner . . ."

asmcsgac - Posted - 10/10/2009:  04:30:13

---

Chewing gum and playing seems to come naturally to me. Singing and chewing gum works, too. Singing and playing simultaneously seems unachievable for me.

Grum - Posted - 10/10/2009:  04:34:24

---

I'd be afraid to try playing while singing. Banjos and hot water should never come together.

Grahame Bertram - I pick, therefore I grin.

xnavyguy - Posted - 10/10/2009:  05:03:35

---

Early in my banjo career (last year), I would not have dreamed of trying to play and sing. Anytime I knew I was going to be singing, out came my guitar. Now, I can almost sing while playing backup chords & occasional fill licks on my banjo, but I still find it very difficult. My friend Art, however, who is a great musician, can sing lead or harmony, and at the same time crank out some amazing stuff on his banjo and never miss a beat.

Jerry

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance."

Gold Star GF-85 - Posted - 10/10/2009:  05:42:42

---

If I am playing guitar I can sing, but not when playing Banjo unless vamping, when it comes to pick'in I have to pay attention and leave the singing to someone else.



Big John,
1987 Gibson Earl Scruggs Standard
1986 Stelling Sunflower

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 10/10/2009:  05:59:41

---

I played piano and sang for 30 yrs before I picked up the banjo,so I can do it. The key for me is knowing the words very well,I try to never have words in front of me. I have a few roll patterns that I use in each chord and I try to rotate them and to make it interesting and keep a roll going while I sing.
Come on into the banjo lounge some time,I'll demonstrate,and you can work on it in there too,if you want.
tinychat.com/banjolounge

See ya there.

Rod

Here's some music you might enjoy.

cdbaby.com/cd/roddurst

tinychat.com/banjolounge Come on in an enjoy!

Paul H - Posted - 10/10/2009:  06:09:19

---

I used to just chop when i'd sing, but after I started teaching I found it really helpful for my students to hear how the vocal and banjo fit together at the same time. You just put your picking on autopilot. Same with counting notes or beats out loud while picking.

Paul Houck
Former Orchard Boy
orchardboys.com
myspace.com/paulhouck

Glenn Tate - Posted - 10/10/2009:  07:43:49

---

Yes, I can play either guitar or banjo, and sing either lead or harmony vocal. But, I've been at this for 40 years, and have played in three bands during this time. If you are exposed to it long enough, it just happens.

"Politicians are like diapers, both should be changed regularly, for the same reason."

Glenn

djingodjango - Posted - 10/10/2009:  08:38:33

---

I have been playing and singing for years and I agree with Glenn and to some extent PaulKirby. I don't 3 finger pick, so maybe I shouldn't say its easy unless I try, but I 2 finger pick, strum, chunk and do the same on guitar even with a modified Travis style pickin'

For me, it's a mind set. I would describe it as flowing with the music, or riding immersed in the melody. You have to know the tune backwards and forwards, much like a jazz musician, before you attempt to play and sing. It's almost like feeling more then a hearing. If you know what I mean.

I know that's a lousy way to describe it, but I can't think of anything else.

Peace
Geo

"Keep it small." - Pete Seeger

bosborne - Posted - 10/10/2009:  08:41:44

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rvrose

I can sing or play - but I can't seem to do both at the same time. Anyone else have that problem? Other guys in the band do it - but not me. Is it just a banjo thing or maybe I'm just not wired for it?

Rick

---

Rick, I started playing the banjo because I wanted to play and sing, so this is one of the things I focus on. About half of my practice time, I'd say. It's taken me roughly 2 years to play decent rolls, in-time. For me this is one of the requirements. Another one is knowing the lyrics cold, I think someone else wrote this. Basically you have to be able to do both the picking and the singing without having to concentrate too much on either. Then practice. I do not think you can expect to do this without dedicating time to it, it's a unique mental skill.

It's not a banjo thing, it's a question of how much you want it and how much time you can practice, you're already close since you can do both, alone.

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/10/2009:  08:49:25

---

If you can sing with the guitar but not the banjo, then it's probably because you're either thinking too much about the banjo or the banjo stuff you're playing isn't providing the correct feel for singing.

I can pick with a bluegrass band and sing, but I didn't start there.

I'm always yelling at folks who take up banjo without strumming. None of the 3-finger stuff that I've ever seen is actual beginner stuff, yet most folks try to start learning banjo there.

If you can strum guitar and sing, then you ought to be able to strum banjo and sing. Start from there and build up with simple picking and then more complex picking.

One of the things that helps me singing and playing on _any_ instrument is that I make sure what I play assists in my singing. That means you may have t modify the arrangements you're trying to sing over. For me, I like to hear the melody on the top string. Once I can hear that, I can sing along while playing. Once I can sing along while playing, then I can quit playing the melody on the banjo, but I continue to play solid rolls and full chords that emphasize the beat but are easy enough to do without thinking too much.

Since most folks refuse to strum even just to get started, another approach is to study fiddle backup, lots of rolls on dual notes, such as 4-5 slide on the 4th string and 3rd string open, because they give you rhythm without much melody so at least the banjo stuff doesn't get in your way when you try singing.

Step one. Strum the banjo and sing. If you can strum the guitar and sing but can't fingerpick the banjo and sing, then simplify. Once you can sing and strum, then the next step is to sing and pick easy stuff you can do in your sleep.

Another approach is to first make sure you know the melody. See if you can pick out just the melody exactly the way you'[d like to sing it. Then work up breaks from there and the singing might come out a little easier because the phrasing fits your interpretation of the song more.

Mike Moxcey
moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Rich Weill - Posted - 10/10/2009:  10:33:25

---

I could never do it before, because it interfered with my ability to listening to what I was playing. But my teacher insisted upon it. Play, tap you foot, and sing all at the same time. To him, the words help you "know where you are." If you couldn't remember the words, then he wanted you to sing, "La la," or some such thing.

This was particularly difficult when the start of a lyric line fell on an off-beat. For example, in "This Land is Your Land," the "This" in "This land is my land," the "From" in "From California," etc. are all on the off-beat. If you didn't sing the words on the correct beats, he corrected your singing. [He had me put a "bum" in front of the first word to hold the space for the downbeat, to make it easier.]

Then I realized that I shouldn't sing to the banjo. I should sing to my tapping foot. And I should play to my tapping foot. Once I realized that, things became much, much easier. [I had once asked him, "Do you tap to your playing or play to your tapping?" His response: "You tap to what other people are playing and play to your foot." The same applied to singing.]

So I'm curious -- for those who can/can't sing while they play, how many do/don't tap their foot to the beat?

10gauge - Posted - 10/10/2009:  10:45:09

---

Its not too hard like anything else just take it in steps. Think the words as your playing, then same them as best you can, then practice and hone it. One huge advantage to singing while playing is that you end up practicing singing everyday too. Between my ear getting better and practicing singing, I can hear a real improvement in my singing especially lately for some reason.

Jonathan O'bug

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/10/2009:  10:46:21

---

I don't tap my foot; I sing to the chord progression and/or melody.

If you play _all_ the notes you sing, ain't none of them of them off.
Helps you realize all those extra notes in the rolls can be ignored once you discover which ones can't be ignored.

Hearing the true melody in your head while playing an arrangement provided by someone else (teacher, tab, recording) is the only way to really relate the picking to the melody.

Mike Moxcey
moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

5stringpicker2 - Posted - 10/10/2009:  11:46:33

---

Yes I can. It's easy if you know how.

tinyurl.com/c263xk
tinyurl.com/ra655r
tinyurl.com/p85yfe
tinyurl.com/qaeupj
tinyurl.com/b8rsjr
tinyurl.com/7hd6xl
tinyurl.com/9p92mt
tinyurl.com/ceop7y
twitter.com/daddybuxx
tinyurl.com/casv3b
tinyurl.com/nwx62

Klondike Waldo - Posted - 10/10/2009:  12:26:29

---

The first time I had a 5 string banjo in my hands was at a Pete Wernick workshop, and Pete had us singing and strumming right from the beginning, and I never thought about doing otherwise.

I'll never play like Earl Scruggs or sing like Luciano Pavarotti, but I'll pick better than Luciano and sing tenor better than Earl
deligo ergo renideo,
Bob Cameron

FatManMary - Posted - 10/10/2009:  18:32:02

---

It's quite bizarre. Now I can't really sing to begin with but I can "sing" and play at the same time no problem. Now on guitar I can't even strum a G chord and sing or talk. With banjo I can have a conversation with someone when I'm playing foggy mountain breakdown or anything really. However, I can't count while I play. It completely screws me up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Grand Ole Opry Ain't So Grand Anymore

reinstatehank.org/

mrbook - Posted - 10/10/2009:  19:14:50

---

I find it easier to sing while strumming a guitar or mandolin, and you find most lead singers playing those instruments. I would rather play banjo OR sing, but no one else would sing the songs I wanted to do, so I had to learn to sing and play. It takes practice, that's all. Pete Seeger mentions his own difficulties with it in his autobiography.

Bill

JackJack - Posted - 10/10/2009:  20:26:48

---

Yes I can sing while playing the banjo, but only vamping and simple rolls only. When it's my turn to take a break, I usually start off bad, but then I get it.

I'm working on it.

Peter Blair - Posted - 10/11/2009:  19:06:56

---

I can do it. Sing lead, or hamony and play. Steady roll, with fill-ins. I wouldn't say it was easy when I first started, but it does get easier as you go along. Very interesting when the vocals are very sycopated with the rest of the music, and / or the fill-ins. It's like you have to learn the song over again only this time you also need to learn where each sylable fits in, or at least certain markers. When I find something to be hard to coordinate, I just slow it way down, see how it has to be pieced together, and work from there. Lot's of times you find out that the fill-ins don't actually start and stop where you first thought they did. Repeat it all correctly at slow speed and guess what comes next. Now you've memorized the correct order of execution. My singing isn't that good but sometimes I'll go play open mic's with just the banjo. Sometimes I think any applause I get is just for the demonstration of what seems like imposible coordination. I can't believe I can do it most of the time!!! The key is just do it super slow at first. Keep tryin'.

Pete

MitchellB - Posted - 10/11/2009:  19:36:07

---

I can do both, but I can do either one better without the distraction of the other. I think it is like most abilities, if you practice doing both, you eventually will be able sing and play together. It is not something I can think about when I’m doing them both together though; I have to know how to play the song on the banjo as well and having the words/melody memorized in my head to do them both at once. It also helps to have a tight group of musicians with you playing. Solo banjo picking and singing is not something I often attempt with good results.

Mitchell

barbbanjo - Posted - 10/11/2009:  22:00:21

---

I don't seem to have any problem with it but I know that a lot of people do. I think you either can or you can't do both at the same time but I think if you can't, you can get better if you work at it by beginning with a tune you know really well. My husband can't sing and play anything - he either sings or plays. He says he just can't do both.

stringbeaner - Posted - 10/11/2009:  23:49:07

---

I reckon I started playing and singing at the same time. I didn't try singing in public for quite a while because I thot I sounded like a dog with his hind leg caught in a bob-wire fence. I finally did start later on but I never seemed to have a problem coordinating the two.

Stringbeaner

eMike - Posted - 10/12/2009:  01:13:03

---

I read a quote supposedly from Ben Eldridge several years ago, who has always been one of my hero banjo pickers. He said he lets his banjo sing for him or something like that. In that case, he has one of the best voices around in the BG community. Nice guy too.

Boringperson - Posted - 10/12/2009:  03:44:54

---

This is a most intersting subject which may touch on the way the brain divides up attention when doing several things at once. This is happening to you at the moment - the 'lower' neurological organs, like the hypothalamus, are monitoring and regulating things like temperature and heart rate, all the things that we need to keep us alive, while the 'higher' organs deal with conscious decision-making. Somewhere in between are the automatic functions, such as the thought at the back of the mind that you'd rather be playing the banjo than reading something that justifies the author's username.
So it seems intuitively appealing (to me anyway) that certain functions (like rolling or vamping) can be moved from the conscious to the back of the mind. That's the goal of getting rolls down, so they're on autopilot. Then more of the conscious can be dedicated to singing or even just talking - have you met those frustratingly clever people who can play beautifully in time and hold a conversation simultaneously?
The moral here is - singing and rolling can be learned, but it will probably take lots of time and practice.
So as ususal a scientist (had you guessed?) takes twenty minutes of blether to say the blindingly obvious.
Personally I can sing while I roll (which I've spent a lot more time working on) but choke up when trying to vamp (which I hardly ever practice.) This would seem to confirm my suspicion.
Incidentally I know nothing about neurology so I am quite happy to be corrected, contradicted or ridiculed.

Mark

'Ya' eat one lousy foot, they call ya' a cannibal the rest of your life.' Dan Torrence, The Big Bus

---

Edited by - Boringperson on 10/12/2009 03:47:47

dpeacock1 - Posted - 10/12/2009:  08:45:52

---

I can sing and pick at the same time, but this has led to mediocre backup skills.
Doug

Enjoy the music!

RyanHerr - Posted - 10/12/2009:  10:25:02

---

This is something I once thought I'd never learn, and now I do pretty good with it. As others have already mentioned, start with strumming. If that is too hard, put the instrument down and start with clapping or stomping the beat. After you can do a simple strum, then work on pinches / vamping. After that, alternating thumb roll. The great thing about the alternating thumb roll is that it is a four beat pattern and you are consistently alternating a downward motion (with your thumb) and an upward motion (with your index or middle) so that is just like strumming. I find this consistent down up down up to be almost essential if I'm trying to sing and play at the same time. Now, the key for me was to figure out how to get a forward roll sound while keeping the down up down up motion:

|---0-------0---0-|
|-----------------|
|-0-----0-----0---|
|-----------------|
|-----0---0-------|
  T M T I T M T M

You see the same sort of thing frequently in John Hartford's playing - look at the tabs that come with his Homespun Tapes DVDs. Also, in Hartford's interview in Masters of the 5-String Banjo, he makes some somewhat-cryptic comments about singing with "four-beat rolls" and I believe this is what he's referring to. I believe that Ron Block mentioned on these forums that he also uses these kinds of patterns often when playing bends or scales on a single string. Also, see Ira Gitlin's "two-finger bluegrass banjo" article: banjosessions.com/jun08/Gitlin.html

I hope this "secret" helps some other people as much as it's helped me!

-Ryan.

bigcraig - Posted - 10/12/2009:  12:44:10

---

This is one I really struggle with. I can't even talk when I'm playing. It's pretty embarrassing when you're trying to ask someone to take a break in a jam and lose it completely, or try to communicate non-verbally. Banjo playing seems to take up too much of my brain!