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Clodhopper - Posted - 10/07/2009: 10:34:46
I am in the market for a better banjo, and I have narrowed the field of makers I think I am interested in, but I have not figured out which particular banjo I want. The problem is that I would like to go to a shop and play a bunch of banjo's to decide exactly what I am interested in getting, but I am hoping to find a used one in good condition here in the BHO classifieds or on ebay, etc. I don't really like the idea of going into someones shop, asking to play everything they've got, then walking back out without them having benefited at all.
Anybody got any idea's on the best way to handle this, or shouldn't I worry about it? I've thought about offering to pay for the opportunity.
If there is money in farming, it's very well hidden.
Pepper Laing - Posted - 10/07/2009: 10:46:20
I say play away, if there were banjos avilable here I`d be trying them out all the time. most music stores I`ve ever delt with don`t mind as long as you treat the instrument with care, remove coats with zippers/ buttons etc... that is how they will sell the instruments, by people falling in love with the one.
www.myspace.com/pepperlaingt...nestarkillers
grich - Posted - 10/07/2009: 10:51:40
Ya, I have an idea it's called " your money " if a shop owner really wants it he's going to insist you try everything out for yourself !
RedZinger - Posted - 10/07/2009: 10:55:35
You could buy a set of strings or something.
Rob
Mark Johnson - Posted - 10/07/2009: 10:58:03
Having worked in a retail banjo shop, I'd say that tire kickers were the majority of the folks who walked through the door. Tire kick away.
Any shop that is worth shopping at is going to be happy to let you play, will answer your questions and will be as helpful as possible, free of charge. Plenty of shops have great used instruments and deals to be found that easily beat the classifieds and/or eBay, so don't close yourself off to falling in love at the shop of your choice too!
Mark
George Flink - Posted - 10/07/2009: 10:58:41
Don't assume that the banjo you buy even if the same make and model will sound exactly like the banjo you play.
ZEPP - Posted - 10/07/2009: 11:00:12
Here is my take on it, speaking as a banjo-shop keeper (and I do speak only for my business, of course):
I would encourage you and anyone else to come to my shop and play everything, even with the knowledge that you will probably buy from someone else.
Why? Because if you don't come in my shop, it's a certainty that you will buy from someone else. If you come in, there is always the possibility that you'll find exactly what you are looking for and not want the hassle of an endless search for something you've already found.
Plus (and here comes the commercial), there is the possibility that you will find that you like dealing with people who are as much interested in educating you as they are in fleecing selling you something. We have many times told people not to buy particular instruments, as we don't think they were a good match. We really do strive for a personal relationship with every customer.
In addition, you may find that the security of dealing with an established business is worth something to you. We stand behind what we sell. 100%. We really want our customers to be pleased, and will bend over backwards to make that happen.
But, if we never get to meet you, we can't make any of that happen, so by all means come on in and play to your heart's content. You'll always be welcome in my shop.
Cheers,
ZEPP
Matt Buckley - Posted - 10/07/2009: 11:05:26
quote:
Originally posted by RedZinger
You could buy a set of strings or something.
I agree with this approach. Even if you know for certain you aren't going to purchase an instrument, the store owner is nevertheless providing a valuable service. Buy a strap, a tab book, strings, something. It'll feel like just the right thing to do. Also, as you try instruments, keep in mind that set-up is everything. Strings, bridges, head-tension, etc. are all significant variables. You can't always reach a definitive conclusion about an instrument just by playing one in a store. Some of the instruments, however well set up, may not have been played much at all. When I took what is now my Ome Juniper off the shelf at Music Emporium, it didn't sound very good. The instrument had a great reputation, though, so I kept playing. Over the course of an hour it just came alive in my hands. The point being, you sometimes can't tell very much by playing for just a minute or two on each instrument if they been neglected on the rack. Cheers, Matt
pastorharry - Posted - 10/07/2009: 11:09:46
You can't buy every banjo you play, but you can play every banjo you buy....
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/07/2009: 11:19:42
Over the years, I've bought five banjos from Gryphon, my "go-to" store. I've never bought more than one from any other source. I visit regularly and play banjos I have no intention of buying. I'm always welcome to do that--as would a first-time visitor to the store. Zepp's exactly right about why the good shops want customers to do that--and how the customer often benefits.
Bill
Clodhopper - Posted - 10/07/2009: 12:01:02
Thanks for all the input.
I guess the next part of that question is this. If you could actually afford to buy a new instrument, would you still prefer to buy a used one or rather a new. I've never bought new cars or trucks because they seem to loose so much of their value when you drive them off the lot. Is the same true of banjos?
If there is money in farming, it's very well hidden.
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 10/07/2009: 12:01:31
I'm not even in the market, and Zepp has sold me.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
dewbanjo - Posted - 10/07/2009: 12:12:21
Hey there clodhopper, hope your doing well! I was fortunate enough to be able to visit Zepp's music store (very, very helpfull folks) tried a few banjos... fell in love with a Cherry Tradesman.... but took too long to make up my mind before buying it. They sold it on a Saturday... I called to order/buy it the next Monday.
However... that did help me out with what I wanted to buy (purchased mine direct from Kevin Encoh).
I'd bet you wouldn't buy a new tractor without a least startin' up.... visit the music store and try the banjos out (you may need to have a tuner with you so you do not have to ask to use one). Play the same song/tune on each banjo....you'll know when you found the right one...it just "feels" right to you.
Make sure you try different ones...with/without tone rings... maybe a 12" pot etc... part of the "cost of doing business" for a music store (or any business) is allowing the customer to try the merchandise.
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
dewbanjo - Posted - 10/07/2009: 12:18:02
Guess I type slow....when I "priced" used Tradesmans the price was only reduced a little.... and I did not want to "risk" hidden damage.... unless you can get a real good deal..maybe "see and play" the used banjo before purchase... hey treat yourself once now and you may be a happy person for years to come of playing enjoyment!!
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/07/2009: 12:59:58
New or used? That depends. I have almost always bought used banjos. But I know what i want, and have been able to find those used. I bought most of my banjos before the current era of excellent new banjos, including the small-shop ones. A lot of it's economics with me; a new banjo in the style I prefer would likely push $3,500--an amount I've approached only once, for my 1927 Gibson archtop conversion. That said, I really wouldn't worry about new or used, but would buy the instrument that I preferred. I would not, however, commission one to be built. I had one very negative experience with that (with a well-known and highly recommended maker), and now would neither want to wait a significant time for an instrument or buy one I could not play before committing to the purchase.
Bill
EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 10/07/2009: 13:11:12
The few times I have found myself in that situation, I have made it a point to buy something at the store - strings, a CD, a tune book, etc. There is always something I need (or want), and I figure that way I am giving at least a bit of support to a retail outlet that makes it possible for me to go play a lot of banjos.
harvey - Posted - 10/07/2009: 13:39:53
I'd say: play away. To paraphrase Zepp, you may end up falling in love with a banjo at the store and buying it there and then. That's what the store owner is banking on, and why the store owner will not mind, indeed will welcome, you playing as many instruments as you like.
And you are at least genuinely in the market to buy. I've gone into guitar shops (ain't many banjo stores here in Berlin...) simply for the fun of trying out a $3000 Martin guitar that I'd probably never be able to purchase. But I returned to one particular shop that allowed/encouraged me to try things, and did end up buying a $2000 Lakewood there. It's part of the business.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/07/2009: 13:58:04
Zepp's right. the last time I strolled into his shop to just puddle around with the banjos, I left almost 2 grand poorer -but considerably happier. I try to avoid the place now but I can hear that siren song in my head at all times - or perhaps that's the tinitus.
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site
ScottK - Posted - 10/07/2009: 14:04:35
quote:
If you could actually afford to buy a new instrument, would you still prefer to buy a used one or rather a new.
Either way for me. I don't mind paying a fair mark-up for a new instrument at a good shop. I like supporting good shops with knowledgeable staff and good service so that they will be there when I need them. Scott
banjered - Posted - 10/07/2009: 14:27:19
And, maybe you'll spot an instrument for a friend who is looking.... There is a local music shop here where the owner breaks out into a nervous sweat anytime anyone DARES to play one of their well-garrisoned instruments. I like Zepp's attitude/approach. Sometimes with somethings you just gotta give up controlling the universe. Twang away! TC
black flag - Posted - 10/07/2009: 15:12:39
Just don't go in the store and play "Stairway to Heaven".
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/07/2009: 15:14:14
You might also surprise yourself by finding that a banjo brand you had sort of crossed off your list is not only a good-sounding one, the price is less than what you were thinking about buying some other banjo sight unseen.
I don't believe new higher-end banjos lose their value ( > $1000) and many quality instruments are investments if you wish to view them that way.
I don't. I see a quality instrument as an investment in me and frankly, I'd be a little more suspect of a used banjo bought sight unseen than a new one from a brand-name maker sight unseen.
With the list price on new banjos, ask what you can actually buy it for today and think about how cool it would be to have that banjo right here right now for that price. (They can't advertise for less than list but they can certainly sell for less than that, and can sweeten the deal with lower costs on a few other deals such as book, strings or capos).
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
pernicketylad - Posted - 10/07/2009: 15:29:55
I'd expect that kind of response from Mr. Zepp.
I met Marc at the Zepp Music stall at Clifftop and I can tell you they really value their customer's custom. I had bought my Tradesmen off them via the internet and left the booth promising myself that they would be my first port of call for all things banjo in the future.
Any shop worth their salt will realise that it's a long road and while they might not enjoy your custom in the short term, in the long term...... think of all the accessories....strings, capos, straps, heads, tuners, tailpieces etc.
It wouldn't cost me a thought to try out their banjos.
Will Fielding was also most gracious at Clifftop even though I made it clear that I was only browsing.......
There are three types of people in the world.....those who can count and those who can't!
pernicketylad - Posted - 10/07/2009: 15:37:13
Hey Harvey I've got a Lakewood too.....lovely guitar!
Had it ten years.....Dreadnought model.
There are three types of people in the world.....those who can count and those who can't!
The Engineer - Posted - 10/07/2009: 16:46:29
Zepp is a class act. He is not only spot on, he does something that I have not seen
other merchants do, he provides you with a sound clip and video with just about
all the instruments he sells when it comes to banjos. He would be the only person I would deal with when it comes to purchasing a banjo without having it physically
in my hands playing it. This is why I bought 4 banjos from him. It is because of a
merchant like him I would even consider buying like that. So yes put the merchant to work for you and you won't be sorry, it can be a great experience. Oh by the way Thanks Zepp for being a great guy.
Jim
JohnJ - Posted - 10/07/2009: 18:59:23
I'm lucky that I live close to Zepp and played all his open-back banjos for over a year before I found 'the voice' (as Mary Cox tells it)....
I felt that I got a good deal on the banjo but never tried to 'price compare' with the internet guys to try to save $50.... Zepp Country Music has to make a profit and it's worth a LOT to me that he stay in business for a really long time....
Drop in and buy something ....
JJ
Happy Tunes - Posted - 10/07/2009: 22:56:03
I'll add my praise to Zepp and Marc. First off the ZeppMusic web site demonstrates they support the banjo community. While I had done some research, this was my first banjo. I'm a complete musical novice. I was attracted to a used WL-250. Marc patiently worked with me by phone. He added two fretboard RR spikes without charge. The store stands behind everything they sell - so I feel comfortable dealing with someone 900 miles distant. I grin every time I pick it up.
Further thanks to all who contribute to discussions of technique on BHO. I have purchased learning materials written by Dan Levenson and Ken Perlman. Progress is slow but steady.
Paul Roberts - Posted - 10/07/2009: 23:11:09
As far as I'm concerned a banjo seller who doesn't want people to raid his shop and plunk on all his banjos should just move out in the middle of nowhere - some forest or something - and have his stuff drop-shipped from a company that has most of its stuff made in a far-off land.
http://www.banjocrazy.com/ Independent Gold Tone product specialist. All Gold Tone instruments available. Banjoistic interviews, videos, tabs, excitement.
http://www.youtube.com/user/strumstering My YouTube Channel
BRUNO25 - Posted - 10/08/2009: 02:44:55
last week I stopped by a local banjo shop. My intention was to play some banjos with scooped necks to see if I liked the idea. I'm going to build a banjo this winter and am trying to sort out just what I want. Keep in mind, I did buy a $1500 banjo there last year, but these guys were great then and they're great now. I had no intention of buying anything there the other day. What I did find, in playing some different banjos, was that I really like the sound of real calfskin. Still don't know about the scoop. But anyway, I bought a skin, a new tailpiece, and a couple of books to the tune of about $100. If I hadn't gone in that day to 'JUST' play some banjos I never would have spent a cent. Im my opinion, that's what a good shop is there for. Why else would they have so many different banjos if they didn't want you to play them all?
dewbanjo - Posted - 10/08/2009: 11:32:01
I am going down to Wendell, NC again in February (to visit family)...but somehow I feel that "Zepp's Music Store" might be my first stop!!
I'd like to see if I can drop-off my Deering Goodtime and have a few minor adjustments made (scooped neck, different head, bridge changed??, try other type of strings and/or whatever they recommend...hmmmm wonder if they could stick a tone ring on too??)
And, or course try out a "few" banjos too.... So, clodhopper, go to a music store and try them out...kind of like picking out a new pair of boots....make sure it fits you!!
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
harvey - Posted - 10/08/2009: 11:50:47
quote:
Originally posted by pernicketylad
Hey Harvey I've got a Lakewood too.....lovely guitar!
Had it ten years.....Dreadnought model.
Yes, fantastic guitars. I've the M-32 model. Back to the topic! The only problem I have with trying instruments in shops is that I get distracted by other people very easily and find it difficult to relax and focus on the instrument and its sound. I never feel quite "at home" enough to enjoy playing in a store.
harvey - Posted - 10/08/2009: 11:54:34
I should add that if I ever make it to the United States again, the town of Wendell, NC will be on my list of places to visit!
JohnJ - Posted - 10/08/2009: 12:59:33
Harvey,
I think that most shops will have a 'practice room' where you can take a banjo for a semi-private tryout...
JJ
Clodhopper - Posted - 10/08/2009: 15:09:08
Alright then, I'll be playing away.
Sure wish I could come up with a good excuse to go through North Carolina. My wife does have an aunt and uncle in Savannah. I don't think we've been down to visit them since 1992.... I sure do miss them and we had such a good time down there. And really, none of us are getting any younger....
Sorry, I gotta go talk to my wife about something.
If there is money in farming, it's very well hidden.
dewbanjo - Posted - 10/09/2009: 04:46:55
Morning clodhopper, seems like a long trip to go to Savannah... you'd need to "stop-over" someplace on the way down/back...Wendell might work just fine...LOL.
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
banjo bill-e - Posted - 10/09/2009: 08:55:41
As for the "Anti-Zepp" retailers, I drove over an hour to a shop to try out a banjo. The shop owner let me look at it, but glared at me when I started to play a tune. He said he did not want me to smudge the head. He was not exactly nice about it. Made me fell like I had tracked mud across his floor. He knew how far I had come and for what reason, as we had talked on the phone before the visit. So I drove back home without a new banjo, and with my banjo money still in my wallet---I was there to buy a banjo! He kept his pristine banjo on the rack, where it probably still resides today.
------------------
Bill
I'm trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I'm half way there!
ZEPP - Posted - 10/09/2009: 09:29:03
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e
[...] I was there to buy a banjo! He kept his pristine banjo on the rack, where it probably still resides today.
Ugh. With that attitude, that's where it should stay. Let's face it. I have a few bucks invested in the instruments I've bought. I don't want them damaged by customers (or myself, FTM), as that can make them hard to sell (duh). But, you know what? Stuff happens. Instruments do get scratched or dirty or worse. But it's not the end of the world. Sometimes showing a customer a ding in an instrument and saying, "that's why I'll knock off another $50" makes the sale. Really bad things can be fixed. If necessary, I can sell a "scratch-and-dent" item below my cost, and just shrug my shoulders and think of it as advertising. I worked with an accountant one time who didn't seem at all bothered by such write-offs. He used a term which I have remembered and which I apply in these situations: "It's the cost of doing business." Cheers, ZEPP
tramp - Posted - 10/09/2009: 10:08:45
I have run a music shop for years ,I was always pleased that people wanted to try out instruments,provided they didnt damage them !! Of the thousands of instruments that were tried out I can only remember 3 or 4 that got damaged,which I suppose isnt a bad average.Thats what insurance is for!also sometimes a small mark and a bit of discount is attractive to some people!At least people dont wear big medalions any more !!
banjo bill-e - Posted - 10/09/2009: 12:11:34
I do realize that frailin' a banjo, for most people, requires some contact with the head, and that a white head will not stay looking spotless is you let people play it. But a smudged head is not really damage and can be replaced without great cost should a buyer demand it. I guess that it is a bit different from a guitar in that manner, although I've seen plenty of pick marks on new guitars in stores.
By the way, I own a furniture store, so I get the pleasure of un-attended children using a $2000 white mattress as a trampoline!
------------------
Bill
I'm trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I'm half way there!
maryzcox - Posted - 10/13/2009: 18:35:50
Why would you not play every banjo in a shop? Hey, those banjos are just hanging there waiting for someone to give them a spin. You don't marry every girl you date.
And you can bet that folks in a shoe store don't take home every pair they try on.
If I ever get so lucky as to visit Zepp's wonderland--I'll probably play every banjo there. It is just very fun to play banjos.
Hey John--I think you probably got a very good price on that blue Ome--I doubt any internet discounter have or will carry that beautiful model.
Best wishes,
Mary Z. Cox
www.maryzcox.com
If you suspect you need a new banjo--you do. Trust your musical instincts. If a banjo calls to you to buy it, don't fight destiny. It was meant to be. :)
http://banjoquest.blogspot.com
Field videos of banjoists, banjos, tunes, and banjos in locations you may or may not have seen or heard before :)
brokenstrings - Posted - 10/13/2009: 22:43:35
You need to try out banjos/guitars/whatever to know how they sound and feel. Suppose you don't have the money to buy one you're really crazy about. Start saving! At least now you know what you want.
And Zepp's right. Don't take your business to folks who act as if your money has bad breath.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
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