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barbbanjo - Posted - 10/07/2009: 02:53:57
I know I'm not a terrific banjo picker but I never seem to play a tune without making mistakes. I have tunes that I have played for years and I always make at least one mistake if not more when I play them. One time I'll miss a note here or there or a pull off or hammer or slide won't be just right. When I listen to other people play I don't hear bunches of mistakes. I've learned how to practice correctly from going to banjo camp, etc. so I don't think that's it. Do any of you have this problem?
Earls 5 - Posted - 10/07/2009: 03:10:36
I have heard many time's - "there are no mistakes" ! Mistakes are a part of humanity - just look around....
Job 33:4 - Zech 4:6
" the truth shall stand when the world is on fire"
bob chappell - Posted - 10/07/2009: 03:44:33
If you watch those old Flatt & Scruggs DVD's from the 60's you will see Earl make mistakes. It just goes with the territory. We all strive for perfection, but even the best will mess up from time to time. For me, it just means I have to keep working on my technique.
slammer - Posted - 10/07/2009: 03:47:36
I can honestly say that I never make mistakes. Just ask my wife, she'll tell ya so!!! 
Slammer from the U.P.
Tip Up !!!!!!!
Grumps - Posted - 10/07/2009: 04:01:37
With my limited experience I suppose I can't help you Barbara apart from saying MY biggest mistake is to go a day or two leaving the 'joe' in its case & immediately regretting it later. Don't put it out of sight, give it a little love & attention EVERY day & maybe even play it eh? Ha! ha! ha!, Happy Pickin' Edwin T (Grumps)
matt m - Posted - 10/07/2009: 04:10:40
Do you play live in public before paying audiences? Do you record yourself?
I ask because concentration is a really important factor in terms of not making mistakes.
You might think you’re really concentrating when you’re playing, but if you only ever play for yourself, at home in your lounge, then I personally think that you’re never quite concentrating with the same level of intensity that comes – on a subconscious level – with playing out in public.
Even if you’re not playing public concerts, you can up your game by recording yourself. Spend a day trying to get a perfect-take recording of your easiest, simplest tune. It make take you a long time, but you’ll get there in the end. It’s important sometimes to set yourself a definite target, raise the stakes a little, force yourself into a situation when you are really NOT ALLOWED to make a mistake. Now, you might still make a mistake of course – everyone does from time to time – but I’ll bet it’s not the kind of mistake anyone else would notice.
myspace.com/matthewradmoremilton
cullinan6 - Posted - 10/07/2009: 04:25:45
Everyone makes mistakes. One time I was giving a ride to a very well known banjo player in my car and one of her tunes came on a CD I had made. She told me about every note she missed when she was recording. So it even happens to the best of them. For me, I get better each night the longer I play. Try playing the tune slower than normal and try to concentrate on each note. That helps me. Once I can play it through that way with no mistakes, I can speed it up and it sounds good.
drwt1 - Posted - 10/07/2009: 04:29:10
Barb....you are not ever going to get to the place of no mistakes. Nobody ever has. It's funny this post is here right now. Go to Youtube, look up the video of Kudzu playing "Here Comes The Train".....Warren Yates is the banjoist..he is the Yates that builds banjos...extremely good picker...very close to the beginning, he kills a note, first string, I think...the band just kept playing. My point is this...mistakes are a part of playing. I have a dvd of Flatt and Scruggs that has Earl playing his breakdown. Second verse, where he walks down the neck...he completely screwed it up. You know what he did?? He smiled, did the same verse again, and nailed it. The secret to happy playing is don't obsess over mistakes...understand they are always going to be there. If I let mistakes bother me, I'd never get Ol' Sully out of her case...but, as always, just MHO......
steve davis - Posted - 10/07/2009: 04:41:10
Not making mistakes isn't the important thing
Not worrying about them is.
You'll make less of them over time.
The worst mistake is made in the time.
No matter what happens with the notes,always keep good time
and probably nobody will notice a wrong note or two.
Edited by - steve davis on 10/07/2009 05:00:20
mybote - Posted - 10/07/2009: 05:05:27
Sometimes mistakes don't sound bad so people don't notice them. You'll know right where mine are beause I make the "I made a mistake" face. I should break that habit. If it's a real noticable mistake and sounds weird, I just say it's a jazz lick.
banjorandy - Posted - 10/07/2009: 05:12:09
played a gig last night and recorded it ....yeah i made some mistakes that i noticed but everybody listening still seem to enjoy themselves to me thats the important part......dont fret over mistakes ..... good luck Randy
Don Borchelt - Posted - 10/07/2009: 05:34:41
Everyone makes mistakes; perfection, the Jesuit fathers often told us, belongs only to God. The difference between the professionals and the rest of us, is that the professionals make fewer, and are a lot better at covering them up than the rest of us who are merely "purty good." As Steve said, a mistake in timing is almost always more noticeable than a wrong note, so when you do make a mistake, keep the roll going until you can get back on track again. NEVER STOP! This goes for when you practice, too; if you practice recovering from your mistakes when you are at home, you will be better able to do it when you are in a jam session or a performance. As mybote said, never draw attention to your mistake, don't make a "mistake face." For most mistakes, you will be the only one who knew you made it, as long as you DON'T STOP. Did I mention that?
With the editing capabilities of the new digital recording software, studio engineers reportedly now routinely edit out mistakes rather than doing retakes. It is much less costly, and less frustrating for the musicians. The banjo picker hangs around for a few extra minutes and rerecords the offending lick, which is then patched into the original performance. So you don't hear errors as much as you used to, but that doesn't mean the pickers are actually superhuman, only that technology is our friend. In the bad old days of analog recording, if a mistake was too egregious to ignore, they had to do it over. In the middle of a live TV show or concert performance, like the Flatt & Scruggs Martha White DVDs, retakes were not an option, and so with those recordings you get a true, unfiltered view of the band's sound. Thus you hear mistakes. So Earl may well be the King of the five string banjo, but even he is not God.
- Don Borchelt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My mission in life is really very simple. I want to make somebody's dinner better." - Chef Paul Prudhomme
Check out my webpage.
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 10/07/2009 05:42:18
banjotef - Posted - 10/07/2009: 05:36:46
No. Never.
Go down pickin'
kjskipper - Posted - 10/07/2009: 05:41:06
Yes, I still make mistakes. No matter how well I prepare, when I am playing - and mostly when I am playing out somewhere - I eventually will produce sounds unintentionally.
Mistakes for me fall within two categories:
1. Unintentional sound produced from not concentrating well enough on what I am playing. These mistakes are often random and do not necessarily occur when repeating a tune or a section of a tune. Some techniques I use to reduce these mistakes are: adequate rest, good meal, breathe deeply, stay calm, focus on the task at hand.
2. Unintentional sound produced from not having a tune prepared well enough. These mistakes, for the most part, occur in the same place every time. These mistakes are only reduced by isolating the errant section, practicing until that section can be played consistently and correctly, then incorporating that section back into the whole tune.
AndyM - Posted - 10/07/2009: 05:51:17
Whenever I make it through a tune w/o making a mistake, I smile for a week.
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/07/2009: 06:06:43
Once you can really play, I think physical practice consists of two different things. One is just keeping your fingers loose and accurate which is what most folks do when they practice both old stuff and new stuff. The other consists of working on fixing issues such as slides or pulls or tone. The mistakes you make tell you what sort of stuff you want to spend that targeted practice time on. For 5 minutes, you do the slide over and over and over. You do it at top speed. You do it as slow as possible.
You nail it or give up and find something to replace it with. For difficult passages, I tend to do both. I work on nailing it but if I don't feel comfortable, I also find something easier that fits so when that time comes in the song, I can go either way depending on my mood, but I keep practicing the hard stuff.
But one of the fundamental rules of reality is that life consists mostly of learning to recover from mistakes.
Just like jamming.
Mike Moxcey
moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
Oalbrets - Posted - 10/07/2009: 06:58:24
I always told myselfe tha I sure would like to play one song all the way through without making a mistale. Well I am still waiting.
Poverty Ridge Bluegrass
John Allison - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:11:29
Mistakes are a way of life ..... at least for me. I like what Pete Wernick said and goes something like this and is soooooo true "........if you make a mistake in music, only you will know it; if you make a mistake in timing, every one will know it." I was telling my class this last night and told them of one of the performances we did several years back when I took off playing "Banjo In The Hollow" and, somewhere during the song switched to "Blackberry Blossom". The band, luckily, stayed right with me and audience never knew it. I saw Jerry Douglas do the same thing during a performance at the Ark last spring. Again, only Jerry and his band knew; at least until he looked sheepishly at the guitar player and verbally acknowledged this error. Same with our band, the lead guitar player said that was John's version of "Banjo In the Hollow" reworked to be "Blackberry Hollow".
Froggie
"Courage is Fear that has said its prayers.
BanjoDiva - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:11:56
I used to be a perfectionist, but that turned out to be a mistake. 
Diva
_____________________________________________________
RK R-80 #67 "The Black Dahlia"
banjoholler.com
Cornflake - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:24:03
I'd honestly bet that I have never played two songs in a row without making a mistake. Now a non-banjoist in the audience would probably not hear those slipped notes and chopped licks and extra twangs from brushing the wrong strings--but I notice them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I love my excellent sense of humor. Unfortunately it gets me into trouble, and un-funny people think I'm an idiot.
wrightedward - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:42:13
Tom ,,your answer really helped me ,,really ,,CREATIVITY ,,i love it ...Now i know why i dont play FMB like Earl or anyone else i have heard ,,i am creative ..How true ,,oh how true ..Thanks my man ..I am lucky if i hit the right string twice in a row ,,mistakes you kidding me
Eddie
Phillippians 4 :13
Edited by - wrightedward on 10/07/2009 07:54:37
ZUEG - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:47:52
Barb there are no mistakes in banjo playing, they are called improvisions
ZUEG
RatLer - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:53:15
Nope...none I can rember...
RatLer
Ukeridge - Posted - 10/07/2009: 07:59:28
I thought Tony Rice never made a mistake. But then he wasn't trying to play the banjo either.
----------------------
"That's how I roll."
mrbook - Posted - 10/07/2009: 08:08:08
The key is playing through the mistakes and not messing up the song. That way no one will hear your mistakes, just like you don't hear the ones others make.
Bill
FretlessinTexas - Posted - 10/07/2009: 08:14:37
To err is human.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
dhergert - Posted - 10/07/2009: 08:16:50
The discussion of concentration is interesting to me...
In my current mode I concentrate on everything except for my playing, because most of my playing is pretty automatic now. Over the years I've learned to play without watching either hand for the most part, so I turn most of my attention to (1) the vocalists and (2) other soloists to make sure I'm supporting their rhythm properly and enhancing the cohesiveness of the band.
I do also listen to my playing, and when I goof I try to make it sound like it was part of the show as much as possible.
Perfection is overrated.
Best,
-- Don
youtube.com/user/dh5string
home.att.net/~dhergert
mysite.verizon.net/don_hergert
"If you must use your banjo as a snow shovel, do so:
only don't wonder if it sounds dull afterwards."
-- S.S. Stewart catalog, 1896.
pickNgrin - Posted - 10/07/2009: 08:44:38
I've been at it for 8 years and I don't think I've ever played one tune through perfectly. I know what you mean barbanjo... it seems to me like I'm the only one who constantly screws up while everybody else just plays.
-matt
steve davis - Posted - 10/07/2009: 08:48:28
When it comes around again,make the same mistake and everyone
will think its part of your arrangement.
pickNgrin - Posted - 10/07/2009: 08:51:42
quote:
Originally posted by steve davis
When it comes around again,make the same mistake and everyone
will think its part of your arrangement.
I did that once at a jam. The first time through I hit the WORST possible note, and the second time through I punched out the exact same note. Everybody cracked up!  -matt
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 10/07/2009: 09:07:28
Some great points here...the first time I was exposed to digital editing I was AMAZED at how they could fix individual notes - like using an air brush - they could even fix my tuning in places! So you won't really hear mistakes on professional recordings any more. I find that if I practice a piece relentlessly I can ALMOST avoid mistakes most of the time, but by then I am bored to tears, it no longer sounds fresh. So yeah, we all make mistakes, it's just a matter of how much it bothers us.
Cheers,
Laurence
It takes a lot to laugh, but it takes a train to cry
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/07/2009: 09:21:12
If you don't like the sound of your mistakes, play faster.
That way they don't last nearly as long ;-)
If you do like the sound of your mistakes, it's called improv.
Mike Moxcey
moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
Prof - Posted - 10/07/2009: 11:13:25
Anyone ever watch Bob Ross on Joy of Painting? He always said, there's no such thing as mistakes -- just "happy accidents."
Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've got it made in the shade if the tree don't fall...
 
Joe Larson - Posted - 10/07/2009: 12:03:20
Well if you're trying to play the same arrangement every time then you're going to make mistakes, but if you're playing off the cuff, just winging it, well you can't really make a mistake. You might do something you hadn't intended or not do something you had but if the tune is coming out of you spontaneously how could there be a mistake?
j
youtube.com/profile?user=downo...ew=videos
There's more to life than playing the banjo, but not a lot more.
Edited by - Joe Larson on 10/07/2009 12:03:59
farley - Posted - 10/07/2009: 13:10:23
I'll never forget years ago, I was at Bogarts in Cincinnati, Ohio, watching Earl with the Revue. I was setting at the front table, right directly in front of Earl.
When the time came for him to do the "Foggy Mountain Breakdown", Earl flubbed it up worse than any beginner ever could. He just looked down, right at me, and gave that Earl smile like "what mistake?".
Which proved something to me...Earl's mistakes are better'n anybody elses correct notes. Farley
1four5 - Posted - 10/07/2009: 14:31:46
It's the recovery that counts. I make lots of mistakes, but the speed of recovery gets better with practice.
Dean
barbbanjo - Posted - 10/07/2009: 16:15:49
Boy! You guys made my day! I loved every single post and appreciated every one. I think I'll go forward with a lot more confidence in my "mistakes" and perhaps even turn them into opportunities. You guys are a wealth of encouragement and information. Sometimes when I get on BH, as a woman, I feel like before I log on, I subconciously (since I live in the West US) put on my tallest stetson, pull on my cowboy boots, strap on my six shooters, slide on my spurs, bow my legs and swagger into the saloon. Ask for a brew, turn to you sitting next to me and say, "Let's talk banjo." It can be challenging to be a woman in the banjo world sometimes. I've been told to "shut up", "keep up", and I won't say the other thing but for 99% of the time it is great. It's probably kind of how you guys would feel walking into a fabric store. Glad the lady pickers are here, too, and I always look for them. I'm new to BH so thanks for helping out and for letting me vent and ramble. Have a great day.
marshh - Posted - 10/07/2009: 17:41:34
Well, O.K., I do make my share of mistakes, but then I've only been playing for 50 years.
Eat, Sleep and Pick
Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 10/07/2009: 20:37:49
Well... The difference between a carpenter and a good carpenter is not what they can build but what they can cover up! Same thing with banjo pickers!!
KL
Rollingwolf - Posted - 10/08/2009: 05:14:45
Just gonna go out on a limb, and put out a different perspective to the "we all make mistakes" comments. You should be able to slow down to a point where there are no mistakes. I mean really slow. Then practice at the speed you can play it flawlessly. Loop any sections that you make a mistake. Every time you play a tune and make a mistake you are practicing that mistake. Your hands don't know that it was a mistake.
So you should strive to practice without mistakes. Play slow, and practice it right, then you can speed it up.
I had a teacher who told me "the only time you are allowed to make a mistake is on stage"
frankenpinemusic.com
Rob Bourassa - Posted - 10/08/2009: 08:28:17
[quote]Originally posted by Joe Larson
Well if you're trying to play the same arrangement every time then you're going to make mistakes, but if you're playing off the cuff, just winging it, well you can't really make a mistake. You might do something you hadn't intended or not do something you had but if the tune is coming out of you spontaneously how could there be a mistake?
Well said Joe.
Edited by - Rob Bourassa on 10/08/2009 08:29:37
Ukeridge - Posted - 10/08/2009: 08:36:18
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Bourassa
[quote]Originally posted by Joe Larson
Well if you're trying to play the same arrangement every time then you're going to make mistakes, but if you're playing off the cuff, just winging it, well you can't really make a mistake.
Oh how I love the kindness of such responses. Pretty soon though, the word mistake is gonna evaporate from the vocabulary. But c'mon: Hit the wrong chord and flub it, skittering your picks across the strings to get back in the pocket . . . it's gonna sound like a mistake to you and anyone listen. And I can't think of a better definition of the word. ---------------------- "That's how I roll."
Ukeridge - Posted - 10/08/2009: 08:40:47
quote:
Originally posted by Rollingwolf
Loop any sections that you make a mistake. Every time you play a tune and make a mistake you are practicing that mistake. Your hands don't know that it was a mistake.
So you should strive to practice without mistakes.
frankenpinemusic.com
This is a pretty good method for removing mistakes. But the hand can remember more than a mistake in a song. It can also remember "Uh-oh, this is the mistake area of the song" and lead to endless flubbing. Looping can remove a mistake, but, for me anyway, it takes a lot longer to remove the hand's lack of confidence, however well the lick is known. ---------------------- "That's how I roll."
10gauge - Posted - 10/08/2009: 09:02:01
I have recorded songs that I thought didn't have mistakes in them. After re-listening to the recording later I notice mistakes that I wouldn't make on that tune now. I'm sure that I make plenty of mistakes now that I am unaware of. It's a lot easier to learn from failure than it is to learn from success. Just be glad that you are aware of the mistakes your making otherwise you would never be able to correct them.
Jonathan O'bug
JackJack - Posted - 10/08/2009: 10:16:31
It's the mistakes that give me my own tone and sound. Otherwise, I'd sound just like Earl.
Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 10/08/2009: 17:39:44
Hmmmph.... Funny thing, believe it or not. The average Joe (or Joet) listening doesn't know the difference!!
KL Page: 1 2 3
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