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jhudson - Posted - 09/30/2009: 00:42:46
Can anyone direct me to a good source where I can learn the Stanley style picking? I currently play scruggs style. I bought the Latest dvd of Ralph's banjo picker but it was little help. I am afraid to buy the ralph stanley VHS tape as I am not impressed with Homespun videos. His style is harder than it looks but I love it !!!! I am currently making me an archtop banjo with a stanlry tone ring from Mr Cox. I have everything done except for sending all my parts to be gold plated and the wood rim finished. Thanks Jeff
mdgodaat - Posted - 09/30/2009: 04:02:09
Just a snippet here but from what I understand he starts all [or most] roll patterns with the index finger instead of thumb.
Bluegrass in my blood. Now, if I can only get it to my fingers ?
tombriarhopper - Posted - 09/30/2009: 04:50:08
Go and get the Homespun DVD on Ralph Stanley...I picked with Stanley a few times in VA and what he told me then is what he says on the video. The one thing he told me was to lead with the index finger and keep the forward roll going.
Tom Briarhopper
http://www.wbtbriarhoppers.blogspot.com
CoolSpring - Posted - 09/30/2009: 05:13:50
I agree, I have always thought of him leading with his index finger.
Deaf David - Posted - 09/30/2009: 05:45:40
Steve Sparkman, who is Ralph Stanley's banjo player, has a very good DVD on the Stanley Style and teaches several songs and licks on it. The only downside of his DVD is that there is no tab with it.
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It's never a good sign when the musician introduces the song by saying, "See if you can tell what this is."
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jhudson - Posted - 09/30/2009: 12:24:37
Yes, I already have Steve Sparkman's DVD, wish it had tab with it.
mburk5 - Posted - 09/30/2009: 14:00:32
I have the homespun dvd,The Banjo of Ralph Stanley,it should be a great start to learn his style.
stanleytone - Posted - 09/30/2009: 15:50:37
i am a stanley style picker and would be more than happy to share my knowledge with you
i have many stanley tunes i have tabbed out and you can view them in the photos section of my bho homepage
if you want to talk stanley style f urther send me a private message.
gary
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
stanleytone - Posted - 09/30/2009: 16:08:03
there is another great stanley styler picker named jarrod church.hes a lefty as i am and he has a cd out of some stanley banjo tunes. he and i are both owners of left handed stanleytone banjos,the only two in existence as far as i know
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
pfunk - Posted - 09/30/2009: 18:51:59
Order a few back issues of Banjo Newsletter with tabs of some Stanley songs you like. Also get the Homespun DVD. There is also a Ralph Stanley "book" on Hatfield music ( http://hatfieldmusic.com/page3.html ) that has a lot of tab and John Wright explains some of Stanley's methods. Those and the Sparkman DVD that you have should give you a good start and idea on where to go.
jhudson - Posted - 09/30/2009: 23:15:14
I have the Murphy Henry Video. Although I like her videos, this on is not Stanley style picking but songs that Ralph plays. She does it more scruggs style. Thanks for the other suggestions on the book.
jhudson - Posted - 09/30/2009: 23:45:09
OK, I just ordered the book from Hatfield music. This may help. I think I just need to get a few accurate tabs to get the hang of Ralph's style. I will give a review of the book when I get it. That is a good website for banjo books.
pfunk - Posted - 10/01/2009: 04:50:16
Here's the link to the banjo newsletter back issues of Stanley tabs. http://www.banjonews.com/BNlhtml/tab_Stanley.html The book on Hatfield's site doesn't contain a lot of the popular songs, How Mountain Girls Can Love, Pretty Polly, Clinch Mountain Backstep, Little Maggie, etc so those are really helpful for only $3-$4 each. (www.banjonews.com)
PharmBoy - Posted - 10/01/2009: 06:19:16
I guess the differences between Stanley-style and Scrugge-style are lost on me. Could someone provide a brief synopsis on how these two styles differ?
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There is no growth in the Comfort zone, and no comfort in the Growth zone.
"The instrument proper to them is the Banjar, which they brought hither from Africa."
-Thomas Jefferson
( )======"===::}
tombriarhopper - Posted - 10/01/2009: 11:30:14
This is my personal thoughts on the differences of Stanley vs Scruggs...Earl uses his thumb a whole lot in hitting the melody note in different types of rolls...Ralph uses his index finger for melody notes that are not that defined and he keeps that thumb going on the fifth string while sticking with a forward-type roll. Interesting enough, that is how both started in their two-finger days...Earl played the two-finger in the thumb-lead style and Ralph played in the index-lead style. John Hartford said that Earl "sings" the words to the songs because that melody note seems to last forever...Ralph's "singing" is similar to sounding out the words using a clawhammer style. I guess what I am trying to say is that Earl's melody notes are strong ones followed by the accompaning notes in a roll....Ralph's seems to be in the middle of the accompaning notes. Just my observations....I could all wrong.
Tom Briarhopper
http://www.wbtbriarhoppers.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/tomwarlick
lethegoodtimesroll - Posted - 10/01/2009: 12:00:02
quote:
Originally posted by PharmBoy
I guess the differences between Stanley-style and Scrugge-style are lost on me. Could someone provide a brief synopsis on how these two styles differ?
To sum it up..Ralph,Raised head Banjo. Index finger lead, absence of the TITM roll.Earl, Flathead Banjo .Thumb lead, lots of forword reverse roll, TITM roll...Thats some of the difference thats just scratchin the surface though.
Edited by - lethegoodtimesroll on 10/01/2009 12:04:18
stanleytone - Posted - 10/01/2009: 12:30:16
to me earl plays with finesse.while ralph plays with soul.
[quote]Originally posted by PharmBoy
I guess the differences between Stanley-style and Scrugge-style are lost on me. Could someone provide a brief synopsis on how these two styles differ?
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
Erbus - Posted - 10/01/2009: 14:59:38
I play a Stanley version of Little Maggie, great tune. There are a few held notes but for the most part it's solid forward rolls. I actually play it with all foward rolls, no held notes, sound cool and it's great practice.
I also learned a Stanley version of Clinch Mountain Backstep, same thing, lots of forward rolls.
Terry
"We all need something to believe in, I believe I'll have another beer"
Deaf David - Posted - 10/01/2009: 21:29:57
Question: Would it be fair to say that Earl's "Fireball Mail" is close to Stanley style?
I always think of Stanley's style as more true to the pre-"bluegrass" sound (which is how he describes it) and Earl as the Bela Fleck of his generation.
________________________________________________
It's never a good sign when the musician introduces the song by saying, "See if you can tell what this is."
________________________________________________
Flying Eagle - Posted - 10/01/2009: 22:00:48
quote:
all foward rolls... lots of forward rolls.
Terry
"We all need something to believe in, I believe I'll have another beer"
You nailed it, Terry. Just eliminate any hint of a backward roll from your playing and you're well on your way to the "Dr. Ralph" sound. Also, get an archtop, crank the head cranked down real tight, and play with your picks about 4 microns from the bridge. That'll get 'er done!
walshb - Posted - 10/02/2009: 06:43:46
4 microns! Lesseee, got my slide rule out.....that's pretty durn close! 
Don't forget to practice those rolls!
minstrelmike - Posted - 10/02/2009: 06:51:12
And leave your strings on for months.
I think that is another aspect of the hollow sound he gets. He leaves strings on until one breaks (about 9 months) and then replaces them all. (Masters of the 5-String Banjo)
My strings tend to last a little over a year.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
stanleytone - Posted - 10/03/2009: 05:15:54
listen to earls "sally ann",then listen to ralph's "fling ding",which is basically his version of sally ann. to me,ralph is more " in- your-face" with his playing.
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
SJL - Posted - 10/03/2009: 06:42:08
quote:
Originally posted by stanleytone
listen to earls "sally ann",then listen to ralph's "fling ding",which is basically his version of sally ann. to me,ralph is more " in- your-face" with his playing.
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
I have a ton of Stanley stuff, but I don't have this one. Where would you find it? "If the woman is alive at the end of the song, it ain't Bluegrass". 2007 Hatfield Walnut Custom 1976 (?) Aria Pro Tree of Life
Richard Dress - Posted - 10/03/2009: 07:54:46
Fling Ding (instrumental) -- Ralph Edmond Stanley 1957
The Stanley Brothers 1953-58 & 1959, Disc 2
78 rpm MERCURY 71207 Stanley Brothers Fling Ding
Mercury Records LP "Country Pickin' and Singin'" MG-20349 (1958)
Mercury Records LP 'Hard Times' MG-20884 (1963)
SJL - Posted - 10/03/2009: 08:22:59
Thanks Richard,
I did a search and see that it is available on The Complete Mercury Recordings.
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Broth...sim_dbs_m_11
I have the Complete Columbia Recordings, The Complete Starday & King Instrumentals among others. I also have the Ralph & the Clinch Mountain Boys Box Set. I guess I will have to add this one to the collection too. Oh well, you can never have too much of The Stanleys.
"If the woman is alive at the end of the song, it ain't Bluegrass".
2007 Hatfield Walnut Custom
1976 (?) Aria Pro Tree of Life
Deaf David - Posted - 10/03/2009: 13:16:18
I really like that CD and play it a lot. I was at a festival not too long ago and caught the good Dr. himself sitting behind the table peddling CDs and signing caps. I asked him what CD he would recommend (out of the vast number he had there) that shows off his very best banjo playing.
He immediately grabbed "Songs My Mother Taught Me" (or Songs I Learned From My Mother; I don't have it with me and forget the exact title.). I was surprised since it is so much clawhammer and doesn't have much on it that I would have associated with his playing. It is very good, but not what I would have picked as his "best."
________________________________________________
It's never a good sign when the musician introduces the song by saying, "See if you can tell what this is."
________________________________________________
SJL - Posted - 10/03/2009: 13:23:02
Well, I just ordered the Complete Mercury Recordings. I'm looking forward to hearing it.
"If the woman is alive at the end of the song, it ain't Bluegrass".
2007 Hatfield Walnut Custom
1976 (?) Aria Pro Tree of Life
jhudson - Posted - 10/04/2009: 01:27:37
I just ordered it too. Can't wait to hear it.
stanleytone - Posted - 10/04/2009: 05:48:46
ralph is a shrewed businessman.he's pushing stuff he has recently recorded.
i always joked that he has only recorded 1/3 as much as what it appears,and that they merely take songs from two or three different albums ,put them together ,and make another.do yourself a favor and get his live in japan cd.one of my favorites
quote:
Originally posted by Deaf David
I really like that CD and play it a lot. I was at a festival not too long ago and caught the good Dr. himself sitting behind the table peddling CDs and signing caps. I asked him what CD he would recommend (out of the vast number he had there) that shows off his very best banjo playing.
He immediately grabbed "Songs My Mother Taught Me" (or Songs I Learned From My Mother; I don't have it with me and forget the exact title.). I was surprised since it is so much clawhammer and doesn't have much on it that I would have associated with his playing. It is very good, but not what I would have picked as his "best."
________________________________________________
It's never a good sign when the musician introduces the song by saying, "See if you can tell what this is."
________________________________________________
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
Deaf David - Posted - 10/04/2009: 13:06:39
Stanleytone, that's the impression I got. I didn't know if it was the most recent or one he had with him that wasn't selling, but I was pretty sure it was more about which he wanted to sell and not so much which I might want to hear.
I'd say anybody that has been able to continue making a living with a banjo as long as he has is a shrewd business man! Or, they are married to a shrewd business woman.
If I had to choose to only listen to Earl or Ralph from now on it would be like Sophie's Choice. There is probably a whole 'nother thread in the question of why Earl doesn't have someone like Steve Sparkman following him around to carry the banner. Maybe it's because Ralph can draw a crowd with his singing and let someone else do the picking.
________________________________________________
It's never a good sign when the musician introduces the song by saying, "See if you can tell what this is."
________________________________________________
stanleytone - Posted - 10/04/2009: 14:43:09
[quote]Originally posted by Deaf David
[There is probably a whole 'nother thread in the question of why Earl doesn't have someone like Steve Sparkman following him around to carry the banner. Maybe it's because Ralph can draw a crowd with his singing and let someone else do the picking.
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you can go to any jam or festival and almost all the banjo pickers will sound more like earl than any other. i been to festivals where a band was jammin and they were heavy into the stanley sound,and they always draw a crowd,simply because that no one else in the campground has that sound. richard underwod said that ralph playing just stikes a nerve in him.thats what it does to me too. when i hear ralph's break on a tune like "just because", that machine gun sound of his just cant be beat!!
he is the johnny ramone of banjo players!
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
Edited by - stanleytone on 10/04/2009 14:45:20
jhudson - Posted - 10/06/2009: 01:47:03
Got my book in today from hatfield music ( the stanley picking book). It is a very good transcription of Ralph's songs. It is really simple picking but hard to for me to do because I am so used to scruggs style, but I will get the hang if it. Totally different patterns. My Ralph CD's are on the way from amazon. Thanks for the advice on this thread.
SJL - Posted - 10/10/2009: 07:08:49
My "Complete Mercury Recordings" came in the mail yesterday. I can't believe that I had missed this one. This is as good as it gets. (although I'm going to have to give "Blue Moon of Kentucky" a few more listens before I decide whether I like it or not).
I have said it before. I have always found a purity about the Stanley Brothers. I love most of Ralph's work after Carter's passing, but to me, it just doesn't get any better than when they were together.
Thanks for the heads up guys.
"If the woman is alive at the end of the song, it ain't Bluegrass".
2007 Hatfield Walnut Custom
1976 (?) Aria Pro Tree of Life
Richard Dress - Posted - 10/10/2009: 08:48:48
Don't forget that Ralph Stanley has been doing excellent quality control since 1968 bringing us the same wonderful stuff.
kjcole - Posted - 11/13/2009: 13:51:49
When did Stanley develop his 3-finger style? I'd always assumed that he was playing clawhammer and 2-finger when he returned from military service in 1946 and at 19 years old joined Carter in the band. I figured that he developed his version of 3-finger picking later, after hearing Scruggs with Monroe, but I've never heard anybody address this directly.
Richard Dress - Posted - 11/13/2009: 14:32:25
A quick check of the Rich-R-Tone recordings suggests he changed sometime in 1947--1948.
Golden - Posted - 11/14/2009: 03:56:37
Hi,
I just got Ralphs Live in Japan CD.
Ron Hansen
blindlemon92 - Posted - 11/14/2009: 07:08:15
quote:
Originally posted by tombriarhopper
This is my personal thoughts on the differences of Stanley vs Scruggs...Earl uses his thumb a whole lot in hitting the melody note in different types of rolls...Ralph uses his index finger for melody notes that are not that defined and he keeps that thumb going on the fifth string while sticking with a forward-type roll. Interesting enough, that is how both started in their two-finger days...Earl played the two-finger in the thumb-lead style and Ralph played in the index-lead style. John Hartford said that Earl "sings" the words to the songs because that melody note seems to last forever...Ralph's "singing" is similar to sounding out the words using a clawhammer style. I guess what I am trying to say is that Earl's melody notes are strong ones followed by the accompaning notes in a roll....Ralph's seems to be in the middle of the accompaning notes. Just my observations....I could all wrong.
Tom Briarhopper
http://www.wbtbriarhoppers.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/tomwarlick
Hey Tom, how do you know how Earl played two finger? The earliest recordings were of him playing three finger style with Monroe. I've never heard of him playing two finger myself. Just interested to find out how you learned of that. :)
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/14/2009: 08:02:35
Earl has said that he played two-finger as a boy. While he must have been aware of older pickers (including his brother Junie) who used three fingers, as I understand it, no one showed him how to do that. He just stumbled on it by himself.
idnworks - Posted - 11/14/2009: 23:18:36
To me the difference is like this:
When I listen to Earl play FMB for example, he blows me away with his speed-- I think early Eddie Van Halen or Joe Satriani.
When I listen to Ralph play something like Pretty Polly-- he makes me want to cry-- it pulls at my very soul and I think Ray Charles or Patsy Cline. It's not just the emotion that pours out of the banjo-- it's what comes out in his voice as well, indeed out of the entire man, when he performs.
Wish I hadn't missed Ralph when he blew through Albuquerque a few weeks ago.
Shawn Clever
Albuquerque
We are the Banjo. You will be picked.
pickaholic - Posted - 11/24/2009: 08:51:55
I always say that meeting Earl's playing would be similar to shaking someone's hand and meeting Ralph's playing would be similar to getting punched in the face. That index finger has drive! I've been away from banjo on my guitar catching up on my chet and merle chops but I put in the starday instrumentals last week and I can't put my five down.
strang - Posted - 11/24/2009: 12:11:38
quote:
Originally posted by stanleytone
you can go to any jam or festival and almost all the banjo pickers will sound more like earl than any other.
Complete with very little singing 
pickNgrin - Posted - 11/24/2009: 13:12:51
While Ralph's sound is a lot different from Earl's, I have always thought that Ralph's picking style is actually a subset of the Scruggs style of picking.
"Scruggs Style" to me is bigger than just Earl's particular way of doing things, his licks, etc. It is a systematic way of using right hand building blocks (rolls) along with a chord based approach for the left hand. That makes it distinct from earlier banjo styles like clawhammer, which uses a different right hand approach, and later styles like chromatic which use a scale-based left hand approach.
Ralph Stanley is one of my favorite pickers, but I don't view his style in the same broad category as Scruggs style, clawhammer, melodic, etc. Ralph's signature sound came from a particular use of of certain elements and emphasis (notably index lead forward roll) that can be understood within the framework of the Scruggs style.
I have the Homespun DVD and think it is pretty good. I think the tab is accurate, and Ralph shows how to pick the tunes slowly by himself and also up to speed with his full band. They don't break apart the defining elements of his sound per se, but there are plenty of examples of complete tunes that you ought to be able to pick up something useful.
-matt
Edited by - pickNgrin on 11/24/2009 13:16:23
spaz - Posted - 11/24/2009: 14:16:00
I bought the hatfield booklet after seeing this thread.. totally worth it! The author even shows a few examples of how a particular measure of the same song was approached by each earl and ralph. Although I'm no expert, it seems to me like the primary difference is the use of the index finger to lead. This gives a different type of rhythm to the roll. Interestingly, ralph's most common roll (according to this booklet) is something that is virtually identical to what earl calls the foggy mountain breakdown roll. I even seem to remember reading somewhere that people told earl they could never get the right sound to that roll, to which earl replied that you had to lead with the index finger to get the right sound. Note that the 3rd note in earl's version of the roll is then done with the thumb, where ralph's is still the index. The other thing that seemed to pop out when looking at the tabs is that earls forward roll often does not restart on each measure, rather he keeps going through the 3 note sequences regardless of where the "starting note" falls in relation to the measure's starting point. In ralph's case his always kind of "reset" at each measure, though this is probably more a function of rarely (never?) playing more than one consecutive forward roll measure at a time. Rather he seems to break them up with his other foggy breakdown style roll... (the booklet loosely terms this his 'long journey home' roll). I could imagine simply having that roll occur more often could lead to a particular sound, since this kind of roll gives a different kind of 'thump' to the first half of the measure. Breaking up with different roll types would also impact the sound somewhat. I'd expect the index usage to make more of a difference in the 'feel'. Anyway, I've only had the booklet for a couple days so I havent had time to do a thorough analysis.. :-D But now that I know what to listen for, I'll try to see whether I can put more of a fingerpick on what the differences are..
Glad to see so many ralph fans out there! Btw, since we're talkin about ralph, check out 'old rattler'. I cant figure out which gets me more, that banjo bounce or carter's smooth mountain voice. :-)
stanleytone - Posted - 11/24/2009: 17:12:42
[quote][i]Originally posted by pickaholic
I always say that meeting Earl's playing would be similar to shaking someone's hand and meeting Ralph's playing would be similar to getting punched in the face.
that is the best comparison between earl and ralph ive ever heard. im gonna steal that one!
good job!
jbjo - Posted - 11/24/2009: 17:20:34
quote:
you can go to any jam or festival and almost all the banjo pickers will sound more like earl than any other. i been to festivals where a band was jammin and they were heavy into the stanley sound,and they always draw a crowd,simply because that no one else in the campground has that sound. richard underwod said that ralph playing just stikes a nerve in him.thats what it does to me too. when i hear ralph's break on a tune like "just because", that machine gun sound of his just cant be beat!!
he is the johnny ramone of banjo players!
"Yeah,I play the banjo.You gotta problem with that?"
this is so true!!!! love the "punch in the face" analogy too!!!!
pickaholic - Posted - 11/25/2009: 08:15:09
quote:
Originally posted by stanleytone
[quote][i]Originally posted by pickaholic
I always say that meeting Earl's playing would be similar to shaking someone's hand and meeting Ralph's playing would be similar to getting punched in the face.
that is the best comparison between earl and ralph ive ever heard. im gonna steal that one!
good job!
By all means...use it when preaching Ralph!!!!!! Page: 1 2
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