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Hedge Hog - Posted - 09/28/2009: 09:54:34
While wandering around lookin' for stuff I can't afford, a hollow body electric guitar, I stopped at the local Guitar Center, my first time in there, to my surprise they had a Deering Sierra banjo sitting on a shelf. Being a banjo guy I naturally had to give her a go. After acquiring the necessary permissions I pulled out my picks.
Initial inspection was favorable. The matte finish was beautifully done. The hardware was nice and the headstock has a nice quietly stated graphic. The strings were in generally poor shape, rusty and dirty. No surprise there. The Deering bridge showed LOTs of maple speckling, the head was acceptably tight and the action was more than acceptable. Then the tuning began, I'm terrible at tuning by ear, especially with a lot og background noise. When it was close a couple quick cored said, OH my god this thing is WAY out of tune. Why I didn't notice is beyond me. The bridge was at least two inches from where it should have been. This thing was unplayable, oddly enough, the head showed signs of playing and it was obvious that the bridge was always were it was when I looked at it. Being stubborn, I went to a tech and got permission to set the bridge and borrowed a tuner. 10 minutes of fiddling later and the bridge was close enough to play. You'd think a store trying to sell a relatively upper end banjo would try to show it in it's very best playing condition. One thing is for sure, the banjo is far more playable and sellable now than it was. I hate to see a decent banjo just sit on a shelf.
After scrubbing off most of the rust the banjo sounded, well dead, no life in it at all, it sounded like there was a rag stuffed in the resonator. I suppose a real set-up might cure the dead problem. One thing is for sure, right now both my GF-85 and OME will run circles around that Deering Sierra. But like I wrote previously, a decent set-up might set this banjo right, but I walked away impressed with my own banjo's and that's always a nice feeling.
MJM
Edit: for spelling
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.
- open the window and let the angels in ............
- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers
Edited by - Hedge Hog on 09/29/2009 13:45:52
Eastbaygeorge - Posted - 09/28/2009: 10:07:34
Just another reason why Guitar Center is no place to buy a banjo.
Eastbay George
manfrommars - Posted - 09/28/2009: 10:12:06
Results may vary. They focus on their money makers, which (when it comes to stringed instruments) are guitars and basses. Sometimes they just don't sell enough banjos to afford a banjo 'expert' on staff. In some locations where there's an active bluegrass community, you'll find a GC that has a decent banjo selection and a salesman that has his act together, but for the most part, going to a GC to buy a banjo is like going to a hardware store to buy a pizza.
slowdeath - Posted - 09/28/2009: 10:15:26
I assure you that this is from a bad set up and disgusting strings.
My Sierra sounds rediculously good and is the best playing banjo I've ever played, but yea it does have to be set up properly and have playable strings.
I have played some OMEs that I thought were wonderful, but as far as that GF-85 goes, there is no question, the Sierra is in another class. Don't let that abused, rotting Ugly Duckling taint your view of Deering. They really are spectacular instruments.
Regards,
Matt
www.myspace.com/slowdeathandloneliness
xzr6f7 - Posted - 09/28/2009: 10:17:01
From my experience, most people at Guitar Centers haven't the first clue about banjo tuning or set-up. And why would they? I don't think I have ever seen more than three at one time in any Guitar Center.
At least they were friendly and let you tune it up.
John
RatLer - Posted - 09/28/2009: 10:23:48
Shoulda told them the banjo was unplayable and offer to take it off their hands at 'cost'... 
RatLer
xnavyguy - Posted - 09/28/2009: 10:29:17
I have a feeling the Sierras are a bit more sensitive to setup than some other banjos. I had a similar experience at my local Guitar Center. The guy that runs the acoustic room lets me set up his banjos. They had a Sierra that sounded like hammered horse dung. Similar conditions....rusty strings, poorly intonated bridge, & loose head. Once I got the head tight and set up, it sounded amazing, even with the rusty strings.
Jerry
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance."
drwt1 - Posted - 09/28/2009: 11:03:04
Set up must be very important to a Deering...A local music store sells Deerings, and I've played 'em all..none of them are near my Sully...but they haven't been set up, either....
Dragonnail1 - Posted - 09/28/2009: 12:59:08
and never go to a pizza joint to buy a banjo!!
Mark
"got banjo"?
Gary Blanchard - Posted - 09/28/2009: 13:02:29
My experience with most guitar stores is that you never want to check out a banjo or mandolin there. Half the time even the acoustic guitars are pretty bad. I would never judge an issntrument based on Guitar Centrr of other simillar stores.
Gary Blanchard
"an outlier among outliers"
http://www.gbandf.com
Max Banjer - Posted - 09/28/2009: 13:12:06
It wasnt the Sierra for sure. One thats set up will kick it! But the GC in my area had a Crafters a while back that played bad and looked horrible. Everything nickel on it was worse than I've ever seen. Of course Simichrome woulda cured that, and I heard some time later they practically gave it away, actually below cost. Shoulda bought it.
Retropicker - Posted - 09/28/2009: 14:27:45
Our guitar Center constantly has used good but poorly set up banjos. They had a 6 string Crossfire recently. Very tempting. Seen Vegas (real ones), Gibson's, Deerings, one Bishline, Omes.
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
1four5 - Posted - 09/29/2009: 02:29:29
I don't agree with you all Respectfully of course. GT is an AWESOME place to buy banjos. Because they deal. The kids that work there don't have a clue, and the banjos have been there for ever. All you have to do is look interested and get their attention. Start pointing out all the defects, play some tunes to display it's lemonworthyness. The price starts coming down, and it's amazing how low they will go. I've hade offers at our local GC of $899 for a Sierra and $411 for a Fender FB58. If I would have had extra cash, I would have snatched them up and resold them here (after a good set up!). The longer I'm around banjos, the more I realize how mechanical they are (unlike guitars, that are all different). If all the parts are there, they can be made to sound anyway you want them to. Buying a banjo because of how it sounds is like buying the only car on a car lot that has the seat adjusted to your legs and the radio on your station.
Dean
Edited by - 1four5 on 09/29/2009 02:30:26
Retropicker - Posted - 09/29/2009: 04:09:33
1four5 speaks the truth. That Crossfire went for about $900
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
Gary Blanchard - Posted - 09/29/2009: 06:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by 1four5
I don't agree with you all Respectfully of course. GT is an AWESOME place to buy banjos. Because they deal.
Dean
I'd agree that it is probably a great place to buy a banjo for the reasons you cited. I just feel it is a bad place to try to form an opinion of a banjo's sound. If I judged the sound of an instrument that has sat so long the strings are dead and nothing has been done in terms of set-up, I'd have a bad opinion of many banjos, including the Deering Goodtime I owned and loved for so many years. The first few Goodtimes I tried out were at GC-type stores, had dead strings, misplaced bridges, and sounded horrible. If I knew what a gem it could be, I probably would have gotten them to come down on the price and gotten a good set-up. Gary Blanchard "an outlier among outliers" http://www.gbandf.com
1four5 - Posted - 09/29/2009: 07:07:44
This is another area where it really is helpfull to know banjo mechanics. But it also helps in the guitar world too. I got over $400 off on a guitar just by pointing out the dings and scratches, and saying "I'll have to think about it" a few times while putting it back into it's hanger.
Dean
John Allison - Posted - 09/29/2009: 07:16:17
Most Guitar Centers that I have dealt with have no idea of how to set up a banjo as they gear themselves more to the world of electronics (other than acoustic guitars and perhaps one or two banjos). My main objection, and the reason why I typically avoid GC is the noise level which seems to be just below the threshold of pain. And, let's face it, their bread and butter is the electronics side of the fence; where stores like Huber and Breeze (local Detroit area music center) seem more adapted to the acoustic side of the fence and Elderly Instruments in Lansing, MI is definitely more supportive of the acoustic sides of music. And, that is where I shop and why.
Froggie
"Courage is Fear that has said its prayers.
BANJO TONY - Posted - 09/29/2009: 08:26:17
I bought a Gibson RB-250 for $1,600.00 with the case.it had a broken tuner on it, got the tuner from janet Davis for $15.00. plus. they gave me a year to pay it off on their credit card I love them
Hedge Hog - Posted - 09/29/2009: 13:37:02
Honestly if I were in the market for another banjo I would have worked on the sales guy for the Sierra. The old girl had a hard hit on the neck, a through the finish dime sized blemish. It was beautifully matte finished and I'm sure it would have come around with more attention to set-up. The thought did run through my mind, "I bet I could get this for a song."
Sorry guys, but to my ear my Gold Star was far better sounding and easier for me to play. Compared to my OME the Deering was, in my opinion, also over priced. But I also believe that with a bit of work the Sierra might have sounded just as good to me. This really wasn't about Deering, it was a comment on a company (the Guitar Center) that doesn't support their own product line (sales that is). Honestly it surprised me to see any decent banjo's in there at all. If they have a product in the store, it only seems logical that they would show or promote it decently. How difficult is it really to do a reasonable set up a banjo?
MJM
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.
- open the window and let the angels in ............
- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers
Retropicker - Posted - 10/10/2009: 14:29:37
Just stopped by GC this afternoon. A 68 Matertone which actually sounded pretty good for a multi ply rim. A 90 RB250 A stunning walnut w/ abalone inlay Wildwood that sounded killer in excellent condition(a shame to be out on the floor) lots of fret wear so it was well played. $2k . I'm real tempted to trade in a couple guitars.
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
cheeseforbreakfast - Posted - 10/12/2009: 20:10:01
everytime I go to guitar center or sam ash to play a couple banjos they are ALL not set up properly, bridges in wrong place, rusted strings.
Bernie P. - Posted - 10/13/2009: 08:39:52
I only played one banjo at GC.Setup was nonexistent.I've played several acoustic gits and bass's.Most were properly setup and in tune.Some had seen better days.They had what was once a very nice Epi Masterbilt but the strings were dead and even with two holes in the top they would only take off 20 bucks.
Retropicker - Posted - 10/14/2009: 04:09:56
Actually aside from bad strings on a couple, they were in tune and not bad. On the way out a guy asked how I liked the Wildwood, he'd just set it up.
The Wildwood sported one of Arthur Hatfield's unique compensated bridges.
____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________
BrianBanjos - Posted - 10/14/2009: 04:10:09
I like the Albany NY GC but they dont do a set up on anything. How hard is it to do a decent setup on a banjo? Not too hard. How hard is it to do a setup on a guitar which is their bread and butter? Perhaps even easier but they dont even do that. The setup on my Tele was non existent. I knew that going in but I figured that if they had what I wanted in a guitar Id gladly pay a good guitar tech to set it up. You just cant judge any instrument based on some picking at a big box music store.
Happy Pickin'
Brian Daniels
Deering Goodtime II
Deering Deluxe
No-Name Asian Rat from dear old Dad
Seagull Mini Jumbo vintage burst cedar and cherry
Tacoma DR-28 Herringbone
Fender Standard Telecaster
Hedge Hog - Posted - 10/14/2009: 09:16:39
Went back and played the Deering once more. I'd love to put a set of decent string on it to see how it really would perform. As it is it's almost unplayable and DIRTY, at first glance the metal was in poor condition. I am getting so I hate that store, how do the sales guys put up with all that noise. When I first got there nobody was in the acoustic room so I sat down with the banjo. Naturally a couple punks came in shortly after, grabbed a 6 string banjo down and stood right behind me banging away on that poor thing loud and nasty making fun of banjos in general, until I gave up and left. Probably their goal all along. That poor banjo is going to sit there until it rots...... its to bad really.
MJM
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.
- open the window and let the angels in ............
- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers
Janet Deering - Posted - 10/14/2009: 09:54:31
Thanks for this conversation, as this really helps bring it home to stores. I am sending a copy to each Guitar Center store that gets a banjo along with a couple of Banjo Maintenance Manuals so that they can see the importance of banjo set up and also know what they will need to do to take care of the banjos.
It's folks like you that can help bring this home to the stores that don't get it.
And it would also help when you are in stores that don't take care of banjos if you point it out to them that they need care just like guitars do. If you have skills that can help them, your help could turn into a part time job keeping their banjos set up periodically. Who knows, this may bring in some added income for banjo players who know how to set them up. If stores are smart they will pay you to get all their banjos in shape to sell especially now, before the holiday season.
Hedge Hog - Posted - 10/14/2009: 16:52:36
Janet D. - Thanks for responding to this thread. I'd like to have talked to the acoustics room manager, but he was no where to be seen. This can be a bit odd and hard to deal with properly though. I would have put new strings on it and cleaned it up for them simply because I have a love for banjo's, but as stated earlier I really wasn't in the market for a banjo. So, there's a balance between trying to help and wasting the salesman’s time. ..... ? ..... Does that make any sense? ...... but I am a banjo guy and BAS can strike at any time, always looking.
MJM
___________________________________________________________________________
I love the snap of a finger pick comming off a string.
- open the window and let the angels in ............
- Side burns a little long,
- A Redman hat and a country song on AM radio,
- In a pickup truck behind the cows
- Drivin' them to pasture, how I miss it so
- Seated to the right hand of a hard workin' man
- Our backs against the border everyday.........
Farm of yesterday, the gibson Brothers
hlr1024 - Posted - 10/15/2009: 00:49:49
Once I went to sam ash and picked up a few deerings and started playing, same problem. bad setup and out of tune. I spoke with the manager of the acoustic room and showed him a few setup thing and weeks later he bought a goodtime and started playing clawhammer.
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