myoldeighteen - Posted - 09/27/2009:  21:17:13

---

This post is from a Bluegrass music discussion on behalf of Harley W.; about one of our

Banjo Player of the Year Nominees.
Sent: Sun 9/27/09 10:17 PM

Reading the posts about Steve Martin and IBMA made me to think about an
article a lot of years ago so i remembered is was a article in the PICKIN magazine
so i found it and read the article again which was in the July 1978 issue. I'm sure a lot
of has seen the article which was 30 years ago.
If you have a copy take to IMBA and have him sign it for you. Mine is for
sale but it want be cheap.One of the things he says in the article that he
was negative about bluegrass that he went to sleep during a Flatt & Scruggs concert.
Now how could someone give him a award for banjo when he was negative about
bluegrass and went to sleep during the greatest banjo player in bluegrass.

Yours Musically
Harley

Surveyor - Posted - 09/27/2009:  21:38:22

---

I love Mr. Scruggs. But I get it. He is a funny guy that has a passion for the Banjo. I too get tired of a lot of the "old stuff". Love it, respect it but I get it. We are all different folks with different taste. I am bluegrass to the bone but I will tell ya, maybe Steve was inspired by more progressive grass. I get it. I bet he did not mean any disrespect to Earl. 30 years ago...I have listened to some great music with Steve and Earl in the last 10 years. Big picture.

Blessings

Mr. B

Wind me up and watch me go!

10gauge - Posted - 09/27/2009:  21:45:44

---

Well he isn't negative about bluegrass now. Steve is one of the biggest promoters of bluegrass and a mainstream connection to the music. I guess he must have buried the hatchet with Earl too, since you can see them playing FMB together on youtube recorded from the Letterman show. I guess I could overlook what a man said 30 years ago, so long as he's doing right now.

Jonathan O'bug

mrbook - Posted - 09/27/2009:  21:58:44

---

I think people today - and probably always - are too quick to criticize others, even going back 30 years in this case. People make a hero out of someone, then find something they don't like and get upset. I haven't been caught up in the recent Steve Martin mania, but from the playing I've heard I always thought he was a good player. I have no opinion about whether he should be banjo player of the year, but I don't mean that to be negative - I really don't know. I enjoy everyone's playing, and never really think about who is best.

A couple years ago, I stayed up past my bedtime on a night I was really tired because Earl was on the Tonight Show. When he came on, it sounded to me like he played FMB exactly the same way four times while everyone with him played their stuff. I'm glad I saw him, but I was not all that impressed that night. I love traditional bluegrass, but I get tired of people preserving the past by copying - take those fine old songs and make them your own.

Bill

BvilleDon - Posted - 09/27/2009:  22:28:47

---

They have both made needed contributions to bluegrass. Earl did not always have complimentary things to say about Bill Monroe. By the logic of the originator of this thread, perhaps Earl should have never been considered for anything, either. I think both Scruggs and Martin have been too busy being successful to engage in axe grinding. They sure don't seem to have trouble picking on the same stage together.

Don

DumbPluck - Posted - 09/27/2009:  23:14:27

---

I don't care much for Bluegrass either. Scruggs or not... I hope it doesn't keep me from winning an award someday....

MrNatch3L - Posted - 09/28/2009:  01:33:42

---

Man, I hope people aren't gonna hold me to account on stuff I said 30 years ago.

RB100 - Posted - 09/28/2009:  01:37:31

---

I would hope that everything I said thirty years ago is not used to criticize me in some way in the present or the future! Heck, I hope that's the case for just the past weekend!

I love Steve Martin's music...always have...don't care for the movies. Somehow just don't connect with the humor...not my cup of tea. I would never use that to downplay his contribution to our music over the past few years. Earl is a hero, but frankly, I have not loved everything he did musically either.

I think the performance on Letterman with Steve and Earl (and Ellis and Wood) was perhaps a defining moment for bringing Earl back to the forefront and coaxing Earl back into the spotlight so that we could hear him and honor him again in his later years AND to paraphrase what (to me) is one of the greatest lines in lyrics, "Memories of what never were become the good ol' days"...

Yep, I have most if not all those original Pickin' magazines..but, rather than go through those and pick out anything that might not be entirely positive on my heros, I'm just going to keep my perception of the 'good ol' days' and enjoy seeing everyone get much deserved attention this week in all categories...and win or not, I will also thank Steve Martin for being such a great ambassador for our music over the fast four decades.

Just my opinion.

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
http://bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

kevin0461 - Posted - 09/28/2009:  02:24:55

---

Hey.... to be honest, going back 30 years, you wouldn't have caught me listening to Bluegrass. It was Van Halen, Aerosmith, Journey, styx and most anything else rock and roll. I probably even said a few negative words about it when my parents and grandparents listened to it. I thought Earl Scruggs was some yahoo from the Beverly Hillbillies.

Today I love it... it's my passion. I'm truly immersed in it.

So all I have to say about what Steve might have said about it 30 years ago is "who cares"!!! It's all the great things that he's doing now that matter.

---

Edited by - kevin0461 on 09/28/2009 02:26:16

bob gregory - Posted - 09/28/2009:  02:44:37

---

That was 30 years ago who cares ............

Retropicker - Posted - 09/28/2009:  04:11:17

---

People's views change alot over 30 years. After raising 3 kids and working for 30 years I now understand and agree with what my father kept saying on many topics.
I wasnt real big on the traditional stuff either back then. Love it now.

____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________

KANINJACK - Posted - 09/28/2009:  04:28:40

---

30 Years ago I was too busy watching some crazy guy play the banjo on the muppets...

cfs1 - Posted - 09/28/2009:  06:32:45

---

i hope i dont have the seem feelings about everything i had thirty years ago, i would like to think i change a little as time goes buy. hopefully for the better, but probably just grumpier.
why are you looking for a reason to hate, my suggestion is dont sweat the small stuff. if you dont like him dont buy his cd, turn off your radio when he comes on and dont watch the awards he maybe on.

Concrete Finish Solutions
Making the ordinary.. Extraordinary!!

---

Edited by - cfs1 on 09/28/2009 06:37:04

KE - Posted - 09/28/2009:  07:05:58

---

I'm not inspired by bluegrass either, but ask me again in 30 years and, who knows, I may have changed my mind.

Gary Blanchard - Posted - 09/28/2009:  07:17:25

---

What were you thinking and saying 30 years ago? Do you still feel the same way?

There are some core beliefs that have stayed consistent for me over the last 30 years, but I hope I don't have the same attitudes at 58 that I had at 28.

I also hope I won't have some statements I made at 28 held against me at 58.

Gary Blanchard
"an outlier among outliers"
http://www.gbandf.com

Gary Blanchard - Posted - 09/28/2009:  07:19:05

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by myoldeighteen


Now how could someone give him a award for banjo when he was negative about
bluegrass and went to sleep during the greatest banjo player in bluegrass.

---

Also, banjo is not only for bluegrass. A lot of us play banjo and are not bluegrass fans.

Gary Blanchard
"an outlier among outliers"
http://www.gbandf.com

The Old Timer - Posted - 09/28/2009:  07:31:12

---

I love bluegrass and F&S passionately. HOWEVER, that said, if I had been fortunate/unfortunate (?) enough to see them in the LATE 60s for instance at the Ash Grove in California, near where Steve Martin lived and worked, I probably wouldn't have been too impressed either! After 1967 or so it was downhill pretty fast for F&S.

I think it's highly possible Steve Martin saw them live at their very worst period.

There's no sense lying about it, "everyone knew" back then it was ending. They had a good respite when Bonnie & Clyde came out, and I was happy for 'em. But honestly, they just weren't making a very good show or very good music then. I seem to remember a Bluegrass Unlimited review back in the late 60s using words like "going through the motions" or "sleepwalking", those kind of derogatory things. In the bluegrass community, once the shock of their 1969 break up wore off, everyone was DELIGHTED that Flatt had gone back to "real bluegrass" with the Nashville Grass. To be sure, many were also delighted that Earl started up the Revue.

Steve Martin may simply have been speaking truth.

The Old Timer.
"Mommy, does Jesus play the banjo?" Huck Paisley (Brad Paisley's little boy) quoted in PEOPLE, Sept. 21, 2009

RB100 - Posted - 09/28/2009:  08:35:28

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Old Timer

I love bluegrass and F&S passionately. HOWEVER, that said, if I had been fortunate/unfortunate (?) enough to see them in the LATE 60s for instance at the Ash Grove in California, near where Steve Martin lived and worked, I probably wouldn't have been too impressed either! After 1967 or so it was downhill pretty fast for F&S.

I think it's highly possible Steve Martin saw them live at their very worst period.

There's no sense lying about it, "everyone knew" back then it was ending. They had a good respite when Bonnie & Clyde came out, and I was happy for 'em. But honestly, they just weren't making a very good show or very good music then. I seem to remember a Bluegrass Unlimited review back in the late 60s using words like "going through the motions" or "sleepwalking", those kind of derogatory things. In the bluegrass community, once the shock of their 1969 break up wore off, everyone was DELIGHTED that Flatt had gone back to "real bluegrass" with the Nashville Grass. To be sure, many were also delighted that Earl started up the Revue.

Steve Martin may simply have been speaking truth.

The Old Timer.
"Mommy, does Jesus play the banjo?" Huck Paisley (Brad Paisley's little boy) quoted in PEOPLE, Sept. 21, 2009

---

I'm one of those who loved the ES Revue and saw them on several occasions...that led me to the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Steve Martin, etc. I also loved what Lester was doing with the Nashville Grass with Haskell McCormack (sp), Vic Jordan, and Kenny Ingram and then Blake Williams. I was fortunate enough to perform on stage playing electric bass with a Southern Gospel group and share the billing with Lester, Kenny, et al (AND Barefoot Jerry!) at a bicentennial program in Murfeesboro, TN on July 4, 1976 - the highlight of my performing career (performing career as defined loosely ;-) ). I was not a big fan of F&S during the latter years and always considered their parting as a natural progression leaving behind a great legacy and leading to the next stage in each's career.

To get back on topic - IMO, Steve Martin has shown great respect for the roots of bluegrass music with his "re-focusing" the bluegrass genre back on one of the true pioneers who obviously was a great influence for him...also, lest, you think there was no 'true' bluegrass in Southern California to influence Martin in the 60s and 70s, please check out this link:

http://bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chroni...es/ICMC2007/

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
http://bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

Clark - Posted - 09/28/2009:  10:50:10

---

I remember back in the 70's seemed like people who played Melodic/chromatic style would say Earl was to traditional,while the traditionalists were mad because he was two progressive playing with drums,steel,sax,and electric guitar.Can't please everybody.
Steves banjo album(cd) was a good one he has my vote this year.

Mitch Manns
Manns Guitar Academy
http://www.mannsguitaracademy.com/

pickNgrin - Posted - 09/28/2009:  11:22:33

---

Maybe he was bored with bluegrass in 1978, but at least he had the decency to diss the French. "It's like those French have a different word for everything". He's cool in my book... then and now

The only thing I knew about bluegrass and banjos in the 70s came from Hee Haw, the Deliverance soundtrack, and Steve Martin. I used to listen to Steve's playing back then, and in some small way it percolated in my brain until I was ready to jump headfirst into bluegrass later in life. I think the work he is doing now will similarly affect kids today. Many years from now, somebody might wake up with a nasty bite from the Bluegrass Bug and think back to The Crow as being one of their early influences. More power to you, Steve, for being an ambassador of bluegrass!

-matt

---

Edited by - pickNgrin on 09/28/2009 11:33:17

wkb28791 - Posted - 09/28/2009:  12:26:59

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by DumbPluck

I don't care much for Bluegrass either. Scruggs or not... I hope it doesn't keep me from winning an award someday....

---

Blasphemous!!!!

Regards,
wkb28791



"If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it-----Now quiet! they're about to announce the lottery numbers!"

Homer Simpson

obxpix - Posted - 09/28/2009:  14:44:37

---

From hearing Steve's interviews over the last few years, I can only gather that Earl Scruggs is one of his biggest heros!! And when Steve was honored at the Kennedy Center last year on TV, the person that he had appear and play was none other than Earl Scruggs, of which he seemed very proud!! I think the respect between those two is probably great and mutual....
As far as who is the IBMA Banjo Player of the Year- I sure hope it is Steve!!! I enjoy the other nominees to, but none of them have released a CD this year that I have enjoyed and played even a fraction of the amount that I have Steve's.....and to me, that is what it is all about!!

***********************************
MILLS/SKAGGS
2012
***********************************

5Wires - Posted - 09/28/2009:  15:04:08

---

There is an awful lot of bluegrass out there and an awful lot of it is awful - 30 years ago clearly F+S did not make Steve's adrenalin move. No big deal - but Mr Monroe 30 years back - horse of a different colour. I don't think that his views back then would disentitle him to a nomination now. People are allowed to have opinions and change 'em, if they like, without being shot down over it. If only the media covering the national and international political sphere would learn that.....

"Jazz is not dead...........it just smells funny" (Frank Zappa)

"We are not anti-union, we are anti-union domination" (John Howard)

Alex Z - Posted - 09/28/2009:  16:32:04

---

Does anyone have the referenced article and perhaps could post a direct quote of the cited words? Apparently no one on this thread has actually read the words -- yet. We don't know what was actually said, or the context.

Mr. Martin was interested enough in banjo to learn Scruggs style picking. Maybe there is more to the interview from 30 years ago than we assume?

Alex Z

mrbook - Posted - 09/28/2009:  16:58:40

---

Every now and then I remember something I said 30 years ago and feel embarassed - luckily, it only goes on inside my head.

Looking at my calendar, I (shockingly) realized that 30 years ago was the late 1970s, long after Flatt & Scruggs split. Forty years ago was toward the end of their partnership, when they made records like "Changing Times." That one can make you laugh - or put you to sleep.

Bill

RB5 - Posted - 09/28/2009:  17:52:31

---

I am pretty sure that Steve is probably Earl's biggest fan in fact he played on the Letterman show with Earl. Maybe at that time in his life he did feel negative about bluegrass music and that's OK. That also happened to me back in 94 to 96. I just needed a change in music styles for a while, but I eventually came back and stronger. Guess I just had to recharge the battery.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Robert.

gottasmilealot - Posted - 09/28/2009:  18:54:52

---

Back then Steve played with an arrow through his head too, right? Things change.

Keith

Ronnie - Posted - 09/28/2009:  19:12:27

---

So Steve Martin is also an actor and comedian??
I am with several of you on the bluegrass issue. After playing bluegrass for so many years I am frankly tired of it!!. Time for me and my banjo to explore other genre. I still love BG and play it once in a while , but I have to take it in small doses!!

www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com

---

Edited by - Ronnie on 10/05/2009 00:02:44

RB5 - Posted - 10/04/2009:  13:39:58

---

Ronnie


That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Robert.

Nosferatu - Posted - 10/04/2009:  14:31:09

---

What was Earl playing 30 years ago?

Thank you,
"Count" Hugh

"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a danish." -- Zen philosopher Basho

rexhunt - Posted - 10/04/2009:  15:44:44

---

You mean to say that Steve Martin, a commedian, banjo player, and wild and crazy guy said something like that 30 years ago with a straight face? I do beleive however that his tounge was planted firmly in his cheek. I would almost expect something like that out of him 30 years ago!

Rex

Ronnie - Posted - 10/04/2009:  23:56:41

---

Hugh, 30 years ago Earl was playing rock music and touring and recording with his sons..
He was very much into Bob Dylan and the Byrds,etc.
www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com

---

Edited by - Ronnie on 10/05/2009 00:11:37

Pete Wernick - Posted - 10/12/2009:  13:31:10

---

Being in the possession of a stash of old Pickin' magazines, I decided to check the detail of the comment attributed Steve Martin a couple of weeks ago on this and also the BGrass-L list. I'm sending this info to both lists. The accuser, Harley Worthington, said, "One of the things he says in the article that he was negative about bluegrass that he went to sleep during a Flatt & Scruggs concert. Now how could someone give him a award for banjo when he was negative about bluegrass and went to sleep during the greatest banjo player in bluegrass."

For the record, Mr. Worthington read the article wrong. Though the cover story is titled as though only about Steve, the last couple of pages are strictly about his friend and associate John McEuen. The sleeping incident is actually about John, as it says in the article:

<<McEuen, like Steve Martin, began playing banjo when he was a teenager, though his first instrument was guitar. He became serious about banjo and bluegrass music when he saw the Dillards. "I'll never in my life get that image of Doug Dillard murdering the banjo out of my mind."
His first experience with bluegrass, however, was negative. He heretically fell asleep in the middle of a Flatt and Scruggs concert.
"I was too young," John said about the Flatt and Scruggs incident. "Years later, when I saw the Dillards, I was 18.">> -- Pickin' July 1978

As far as Steve being negative about bluegrass, there's no such statement in the article. Also, having talked with him a lot about bluegrass (including for this month's B.U. cover story), I know he's not at all negative about bluegrass. In fact, he's in the last several years becoming better acquainted with it, as his attention before that was mostly on the banjo style. For his wedding two years ago, he and his wife asked Hot Rize to provide the music, so I'd say he is positive about bluegrass.

I hope the quick-to-accuse Mr. Worthington will just as quickly apologize to everyone for putting out negative misinformation. I'd say that's a more serious offense than what he said Steve said.

Pete Wernick

DrBanjo.com

derekanjo - Posted - 10/12/2009:  14:54:59

---

The doctor is IN!!

Derek

obxpix - Posted - 10/12/2009:  15:58:21

---

Great post Pete!! And thanks for the research on the topic....And by the way, who is Harley Worthington?

***********************************
MILLS/SKAGGS
2012
***********************************

clandstr - Posted - 10/12/2009:  19:22:04

---

Thanks for your comments Pete!

bearface - Posted - 10/12/2009:  19:33:31

---

I think the proof is in Steve Martins obsession with the banjo.how could he have played all these years and not love the music.I hope he continues to thru his fame promote Bluegrass music .He is such a cool artist.

RB00 - Posted - 10/12/2009:  19:42:16

---

Steve and Earl looked pretty good together on stage last night! It was a bluegrass evening!

Len

"Fisrt the doctor told me the good news. I was going to have a disease named after me."
Steve Martin

Retropicker - Posted - 10/12/2009:  23:37:57

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by derekanjo

The doctor is IN!!

Derek

---

Perfect.

____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________

mogultx - Posted - 10/13/2009:  03:43:22

---

(pssst-- maybe he was being a comedian. I understand he has tried that a few times in his life...)

Monty

noli illegitimi carborundum (stolen from DAT)

AD3AD3AD3 - Posted - 10/13/2009:  04:55:01

---

Whatever Steve Martin (or anyone else) did or said 30 or 40 years ago is irrelevant today. There ae many factors that can induce sleep, exhastion comes immediately to mind, the 'red eye,'all manner of medications, clinical depression, etc. It might even be less-than=true statement for humor or just plain shock value. With the old Flatt & Scruggs show, it probably wasn't boredom and, given Mr. Martin's near-lifetime interest in 5-string, I suspect the sleeping episode (if true) had nothing to do with lack of focus on the picking of Earl Scruggs.

AD3

myork1 - Posted - 10/13/2009:  05:27:34

---

Dr. Pete,
Good call.
I had the good fortune to have dinner with John McEuen at IBMA and I can see John saying some deadpan remark like the "falling asleep" comment. But I also hear his passion today when he talks about the Dillards incident. In fact when he introduced them into the Hall of Fame he said that night changed his life. If he hadn't been there, if there had been no Dillards...there would have been no John McEuen...no Nitty Gritty (& friends) project...etc.
John is also a driving force in helping Steve get his passion for banjo to this point. Which sold out the new Knight Theater in Charlotte and brought down the house for 3 standing O encores. All of us should be so fortunate...

Michael

Have a Great "Banjo Day!"
BanjoDay@gmail.com
Michael York

frail42 - Posted - 10/13/2009:  06:15:37

---

Pete Wernick, I think you just won the internets. Best BHO post ever.

-------------------------
http://www.ukbluegrass.com

TopCat - Posted - 10/13/2009:  13:15:18

---

Nice one, Dr Pete!

So are Terry Edwards and Harley Worthington one and the same? We should be told!!

rudykizuty - Posted - 10/13/2009:  15:13:26

---

Geez, if this doesn't remind me of my ex-wife. Thirty years on and still being credited with saying bad things I never really said

Anthony Herner
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have to practice even to be lousy -- Jack Benny

---

Edited by - rudykizuty on 10/13/2009 15:16:54

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 10/24/2009:  04:37:36

---

Things taken out of context start rumors

Banjo Wes
All things excellent are difficult as they are rare.

Spinoza

NWJoe - Posted - 10/29/2009:  17:38:16

---

I love Steve Martin. To say he is negative about bluegrass is insane. When you see him on national talk shows he is so respectful of the musicians playing with him (always ensuring they are introduced) and the musical art form. Steve Martin is one of bluegrass music's champions on the international stage.

I implore you, Mr. Worthington, to apologize to Mr. Martin for spreading this misinformation. Hey, we're all human. Banjo players are a very forgiving group. Otherwise, may your electronic tuner always be improperly set.

Helix - Posted - 10/29/2009:  19:27:10

---

Steve Martin made a commitment to the music more than many years ago, that was separate from using the banjo for comedy. He plays. Vanguard Coffeehouse, Kansas City, 1967.

30 years ago I passed some gas. Now, also it's a climbing moon, let's all go with care, someone might be off their meds. It's better to try to FLOW with the tides.

http://www.helixbanjos.com
(_)===='===::}

---

Edited by - Helix on 10/29/2009 19:28:34

5Wires - Posted - 10/29/2009:  22:32:13

---

Nice post Dr Pete.

"Jazz is not dead...........it just smells funny" (Frank Zappa)

"We are not anti-union, we are anti-union domination" (John Howard)