MitchellB - Posted - 09/22/2009:  12:12:10

I was wondering if any of you that were responsible for making set lists for upcoming gigs how you approached it? I know you try to gear it for your audience’s pleasure, but if you expect an unknown diverse crowd how would you lay it out?
Do you follow a formula?
Like - fast song, mid tempo, slow song, etc?
Play - cover song, original song, cover, etc?
Ask for requests?
Just think of songs on stage and play whatever feels right?
Arrange songs by the keys or try to use diverse keys?
Start with a certain song or type?
End with a particular song or type?
Always include some gospel numbers?
The number of song used in a certain time frame?


Mitchell

Texasbanjo - Posted - 09/22/2009:  12:25:14

When our band was together, I made the set lists out -- and the other members had a right to veto a song or songs.

I'd usually start out with something pretty fast and peppy -- get the audience's attention. Then I'd alternate with a slow number, fast number, be sure and put in a couple of gospel songs and a couple of instrumentals.

We always had a set list that everyone could see and it always had a couple of extra songs on it just in case I didn't plan the timing out right or we were asked to play another song (oh, that always made you feel great).

For our group, with 3 female singers/pickers, we also alternated who sang the songs so it would be pretty even between the 3 of us. Good, democratic band.

Two of us were pickers and we shared the breaks and backup, the other was a darn good rhytym guitar picker who kept us in line. Of course, the bass player (my husband) kept the tempo just right for all the songs.

So nice thinking about the good old days.

Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo

steve davis - Posted - 09/22/2009:  12:44:25

Our band has three main singers any one of which knows enough
songs for the whole night,so whoever wants to start the next
one just does.
Sometimes I'll kick off an instrumental or sing one of the dozen
or so songs that I sing.
No set list/requests take priority.

1four5 - Posted - 09/22/2009:  13:37:03

We've actually taken a song list to an event organizer, and let them choose the songs, but that's not the norm. But we do ask for a general genre. There's just 3 of us, and one of us picks the songs (not me). I'm just happy to be playing, so song selection is secondary and that avoids any conflict.

Dean

Westvon - Posted - 09/22/2009:  13:42:48

arrange by both key and tempos. You don't want a bunch of slow tunes all bunched together, nor do you want the fast ones bunched together. Mix it up. Also try to arrange them so you're not forcing the banjo player and guitar player to jump around in different capo positions. That only adds to slow downs and potential tuning issues.

David Russell

www.reverbnation.com/hardlinedrive

www.hotbanjolicks.com

Joe Larson - Posted - 09/22/2009:  14:44:33

We usually start with 3 tunes, the first being pretty quick. We have 2 lead singers so we try to give each of them a tune and then one instrumental. These tunes are all in the same key so we can hit them one after another without changing a capo. Then we introduce the band. After that all bets are off. We have the list all laid out but we never follow it, it's just what everyone feels like. I'm sure it looks a little sloppy but I think it's better to tailor your set to the audience and the venue.

And sometimes if you're taking requests, the audience will determine the set list, but that can be a problem.

j

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user...&view=videos
There's more to life than playing the banjo, but not a lot more.

Edited by - Joe Larson on 09/22/2009 14:46:21

3fingers - Posted - 09/22/2009:  14:47:34

As we play 100% gospel the makeup of our sets are based on tempo and song message but we also take into consideration who we are playing to. We usually start off with a up tempo song then a couple slower songs then another up tempo one and so on but we always end with a couple songs with really good messages. If we are playing to festival crowd though we usually try to do fairly well known songs like I'll fly away and I saw the light and mix in a few deeper message songs. We tried doing our regular church set at festivals and it doesnt get the response that the old standards do so we pretty much stick with them at festivals. We also rotate songs in and out of our standard set list, we have about 130 or 140 songs that we pick from so that makes it a little easier and we ususally do 1 sometimes 2 instrumentals per set also

Craig
http://www.myspace.com/borrowedtyme2
Come along down to the barnyard lets have us a little banjer pickin
Jeremiah 6:16
Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8 10:9, 10:13, 1st John 5:10-13.

banjobilly32 - Posted - 09/22/2009:  16:44:12

We try to avoid that Chinese number (Tuning) by playing at least a couple songs in the same key. We also vary the tempo, and play an instrumental after about three vocals. Sometimes you can get the feel of an audience and play more of what they seem to be enjoying. Many times our set lists end up being more of a guide. JUst have fun with what you are presenting!

Gary Blanchard - Posted - 09/22/2009:  19:00:06

As a solo performer, I usually start and end each set on guitar, with a block of banjo stuff in the middle. I try to open and close the set with something bouncy or uplifting. Other than that, I try to vary keys and tempos. Now that I have the long-neck banjo, I start out with songs in E or A as I need to tune up the 5th string as I capo. I always have a set list but will veer from it as the occaision demands. I don't usually take requests as I probably can't play what they will request.

Back in the 80's I was doing Sunday morning gigs in a coffee shop; I made up a "menu" of songs that I could play and let people request them. That was fun for the audience as well as for me.

Gary Blanchard
"an outlier among outliers"
http://www.gbandf.com

mrbook - Posted - 09/22/2009:  20:21:10

We play a couple lively (not necessarily fast) songs before any talking. Certain songs are good openers and closers for a set. Our group of four has three singers and a fiddler who doesn't sing lead - I like to have each singer do no more than two songs in a row, and feature fiddle instrumentals equally with the vocals. If a set has 16 songs, each singer does four, with four instrumentals.

I like to think of blocks of 3-5 songs that go well together, perhaps a theme like "trains" or something. I also don't like to do more than two songs in a row in the same key,vary tempos, etc., all the normal things to add variety. I take the audience into account, too - no murder ballads at the Kid's Fest or a wedding. If some players (usually me) switch instruments, I think about that, as well as capo use. Sounds complicated, but we have had some good sets. I don't mind a request now and then, either.

That's how I did it when I made the sets. A while ago one of the other guys took over the job, and we have played every show off the same stupid list for three years. But I don't mean to complain...

Bill

John Allison - Posted - 09/23/2009:  05:59:03

I generally put the set lists together for our band, although each member has an input into that selection. As far as organization goes, I generally try to put songs together that are similar in basic nature such as gospel, fiddle tunes together, straight up bluegrass together, etc.. As far as slow and fast within that style, I mix them ups as best as possible.

Froggie
"Courage is Fear that has said its prayers.

PaulKirby - Posted - 09/23/2009:  06:15:05

I take the raw list and use index cards, one tune for each card. On the card is the title, key, affect (baroque music term for which of the 4 humours it expresses. 'groove' if you like), story material. I just shuffle the cards until I get it right, and it works extremely well.

I started doing something new after having seen Doyle Lawson at the Ryman Auditorium in June, which is that we play three fast ones in G to open the evening, with no break in between. Currently it's Salty Dog Blues, Carrie Brown, and Can't you hear me callin'. Then we talk and do a couple of tunes in A. It gets us really warmed up to play the 3 Gs. Then the audience seems to be eager to rest and hear us talk a little bit.

Previous poster mentioned grouping songs with themes, which I think can be a good idea. Every band is different. I try to plan the list so that the band stays warm and relaxed, and eager to play. I made a mistake this summer and put down 3 old-time tunes, and by the third one, everybody had run out of ideas and it got to be a little embarrassing. We live and we learn.

This summer we started pairing 'Fox on the Run' and 'Wish you were here' (Pink Floyd), doing the whole English super-group thing, talking about Manfred Mann and then going into Pink Floyd. That transition has worked extremely well virtually every time we've done it. Almost got us a standing ovation (in the middle of a set!) this summer at a festival.

http://www.kateyzbb.com/
http://www.americanmadebanjo.com/

Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. Great dancers are not great because of their technique, they are great because of their passion.
--Martha Graham

Jon Eric - Posted - 09/23/2009:  06:27:32

Remember that a concert can be the band's roller coaster ride for the fans.
Getting them to dance (if the venue calls for it) or slowing the emotion down to singing something really heartfelt. Sometimes the set goes on and the singer may have to go a little easier on the voice.

This is where back up songs on your list can be used in the place of a tired voice. The faster tunes being the most popular but not the only thing played at a show.

Make sure that ALL soloists or vocalists get to shine- as this makes for a more diverse band where everyone is showing strengths and hidden talents. (perhaps on other instruments as well)

HAVE FUN!

Jon Eric
http://www.JonEricMusic.com

The Old Timer - Posted - 09/23/2009:  06:47:31

Usually start with a medium tempo straight time piece in G or A to get the band rolling, follow with a slow duet in a different key, then stop to make introductions.

Usually have a set list with "holes" in it for one or two more songs, in case there are requests.

Always try to vary keys, tempos and straight time vs. waltz time. Tend to group the gospel tunes together about 3/4 way through the set.

Also mix vocal arrangements: solos, duets, trios, quartets so you don't have the same line up at the mike back to back a lot.

End with something peppy, again in one of the "straight" keys like G, A or B, where the banjo can roll good and strong.

Always have an encore song in your pocket just in case, so you don't hem and haw trying to figure out what to do if you're called back, the band should be able to get tuned or capoed for it FAST.

Mix in the instrumentals, never two back to back.

The Old Timer.
"Mommy, does Jesus play the banjo?" Huck Paisley (Brad Paisley's little boy) quoted in PEOPLE, Sept. 21, 2009

alprice - Posted - 09/23/2009:  07:16:16

There are many ways to approach this. I try to vary songs by key, tempo and also the lead singer/instrumentalist. I am fortunate to play in a band where everyone takes a turn in the spotlight.

I also try to follow up a particularly sad or serious tune with a funny one. And vice versa.

It takes time to build a good set, for me as long as it takes to actually play it. That being said, its not unusual to call an audible when certain types of tunes are working that nignt.

______________________________
alprice@nechville.com
www.vzvalley.com

gkella - Posted - 09/24/2009:  15:03:43

I think you should start each set with a song the audience would know and you play well.
End each set with a fast song the audience knows and you play well.
The rest doesn't matter.
90% of the audience in a bar setting, is talking and not paying attention to what you are playing at all.
A festival would be a whole different animal.
Glen

minstrelmike - Posted - 09/24/2009:  15:23:42

I've been in a lot of different bands.
Some prefer set lists because it makes it faster to get to the next song and some hate them because they allow no modifications for audience emotions.

A middle ground if you have bands members comfortable with jamming and audience requests and what not is to have a somewhat regular intro and a few best songs ordered up for an exciting finish. That way you leave room for improv in the middle without worrying about using up your best songs.

Another factor I always consider is warm-up mode. If you're playing a festival, you want to warm-up off stage and come on hot. If you're playing a party or a bar, I like going on cold and starting slow with a catchy blues number or something, then another slower tune that gets the fingers and voices warmed up and in sync.


Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Ronnie - Posted - 09/24/2009:  15:24:45

When I was playing with a bluegrass band most everything I played was in G or drop C tuning. The band liked to play MOCS in F. While I suppose I could have faked something in G tuning, I liked to retune to D and capo at the 3rd fret. It would always wind up in the middle of a set. It took a few seconds to set up the banjo. I asked the guy making up the set list that MOCS be moved to the end of the set, or at least have the front man tell a joke or something. and give me time to get tuned for the song. They would go rapid fire from one song to the next and I would be fumbling with the banjo and miss the opening break, then have to retune again for the next selection.

www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com

Edited by - Ronnie on 09/24/2009 15:25:25

stelling man - Posted - 09/24/2009:  15:33:32

One of the bands I play In has three lead singers, we all have been playing and singing long enough to know a lot of songs, we don't need a set list, we just wing It..

STELLING MAN

O.D. - Posted - 09/24/2009:  16:29:03

i like a set list. All good replies on this .
set it up with tempo, song key, feature differant singers, intruments, etc. in mind.
To me , playing with a set list makes the band appear more proffesional. I dont like to see bands play when the members dont know what song is next, or what key its in,disagreement on stage , tuning, etc.
many times our set list contain medley's and songs grouped together on purpose.
When the band flows through this stuff effortlessly it can leave a very positive impression.
Its also good to have particular tunes on a list for an "emergency".
Our bass player had to leave the stage one night for an unexpected reason.
The band caried on with afiddle/mando duet which happily finished up just as he returned to the stage.
I suppose that each gig has its own character as well. Playing for a transient crowd allows for a more relaxed approached as opposed to a sit concert atmosphere.

Good luck.
Regards, O.D.

www.oxforddepot.net
www.cdbaby.com/cd/edackerly

rvrose - Posted - 09/24/2009:  16:35:25

Here's one our summer festival play lists:
1 I’ll Fly Away – w/singer
2 Cripple Creek - Inst.
Introductions –
Story/Joke
3 Keep on the Sunny Side – ‘G’ - Singer
4 Foggy Mnt. Breakdown
Story
5 Gone Home – Inst.
6 Old Joe Clark – ‘A’
7. “Hole in the Infield” original song w/singer
Story
8 Wayfaring Stranger - ‘Em’ – Singer
Story
9 Clinch Mtn Backstep
10 It’s True – ‘E’ - Singer
11Cindy Cindy - cut if short on time
12 Amazing Grace – ‘G’ - Singer
13 Liberty – finale

The Jokes/Stories depend on how much you are the "main event" vs background music for other activities. Skip them if people are just passing through and milling about. If you are in more of a concert and have the full focus of attention you can tell the jokes. If you are playing Church then - all Gospel.

mike gregory - Posted - 09/25/2009:  06:49:08

I recall a LIFE magazine article, years ago, with pictures, showing Bob Hope preparing for a live show.

And I remember the shot of him crawling on the floor, re-arranging joke cards, to get the "flow" going.

I've done pretty much the same thing when putting together a set list.

If one song is in some way related to another, use that relationship to introduce the second song.

If the song is in any way connected to something local or current, use that.

=):{ )
Mike Gregory, Banjo Maker Infraordinaire
When I say my instruments are as good as anything Gibson or Martin ever made,
I mean MEL Gibson and DEAN Martin!


My banjos can be seen on my own website
http://littlebanjos.lunare.net

See me & my SQUARED EEL banjo on the Y'all tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97EfvhFgRBY

MitchellB - Posted - 10/12/2009:  06:40:48

Thanks for all the tips and advice. I have recently been using my computer to help me sort songs from a Master Song List. I’ll use my Excel program and list all the songs we can do in that. After each song I have a column for Key; Tempo; Style; Soloist; Cover or Original; and Instrumental or Vocal to make arrangement notes in. When making a list I can use the computer Sort key to quickly help search for a song to use next. Like if I want a fast song that a certain person sings in a particular key next, I’ll sort by Key- Soloist-Tempo. The computer also makes it easy to save and print out copies for everyone.

Mitchell

rstieg - Posted - 10/12/2009:  17:06:02

I usually do the setlists for one of the bands I play in. We're not highly experienced, so we like to start with a medium to fast tempo song we know especially well to help get everyone in a good groove. I try to spread out the singers and we usually play 2 instrumentals per set, often #4 or #5 and #9 or #10 or so. We typically play about 12-13 songs per set, depending on the total allotted time. We don't do a lot of slow songs, but I usually try to follow a slow song with a fast one whenever possible, usually around the middle of the set.

I also like to cluster songs together in the same key. I know other folks sometimes try to do just the opposite, but I really don't think our audience can tell, and it helps to speed things up when no one has to change a capo and/or re-tune.

We do a fair number of 2-set gigs, so we usually have a supplemental list of about 4-5 vocals and a couple of instrumentals in case we decide to play a bit longer. Sometimes we switch things around on the fly as well. For instance we've had a few gigs where some little kids (or adults) would come up and start dancing. We like to encourage that, so if we have a slow song coming up, we'll usually switch to something faster to keep the dancing going.

RICH
Pleasanton, CA

The truth is a moving target... perception is more important than reality... everything is relative...

blugrssmom - Posted - 10/14/2009:  23:09:01

Kick the set off with something fast and driving that you play well. Then do several tunes in a row the same key so the banjo's not retuning constantly and giving you too much downtime that takes your audience's attention away. See once you start off good and driving you don't want to stop the momentum by stopping to tune for the very next song. So keep a couple of tunes following your first one in the same key. Then each time you retune the banjo play several tunes in that key before moving to a new key thus keeping the music flowing strong. Mix a few driving fast tunes with some slower, or 3/4 timed songs to vary your set. Then finally always end your set with another fast driving tune that you do especially well leaving the audience wanting more.

Raynae Redman.

A banjo can get you through times with no money, but money can't get you through times with no banjo. John Hartford

Bob Miller - Posted - 10/15/2009:  03:49:43

All great ideas for set lists.

I also recommend you add the first words of the verse in italics after the title. I did that to help me get the tune in my head since I usually kick the songs. The rest of the guys really liked that.

Bob Miller
"If this ain't bluegrass, grits ain't groceries"

edweber - Posted - 10/15/2009:  09:30:15

I've always put together the set list for my bands. I don't remember where I learned this but I learned to approach it with the letter "W" in mind. The top of the left ascender represents the beginning of the set, the middle ascender the middle of the set and ending the set with the right ascender. So, translated that means you start off with a fast tune or maybe two, then go to a medium paced tune and so on until you bring it down to the bottom of the left ascender. Then you want to revive the tempo of the tunes a little bit (the middle of the "W"), take it back down again and finish off the set list by riding back up the right ascender until you hit the peak with a fast, lively tune.

Depending on how long your show runs will determine the number of songs you can fit in the "W". A 45 minute set for example usually allows for 12-13 songs. Keep in mind that the front man needs to talk to the audience, tell a joke or two, introduce the band, etc. A 30 min. set will net you about 9 songs. When you get into the hour long sets and even the hour and a half long sets you'll find that you have to modify the "W" to include extra middle portions that will look like this: "WW" and these middle portions' peaks will only be just a little bit higher - and in some cases just as high as the left or right ascender - than a normal "W". You have to get a feel for it (know your audience) and play it by ear. I always used to look out at them from behind the curtains or from behind the stage or even just sit in the audience and listen to the other acts at a festival just to get a feel for the type of audience they were.

The overiding idea here is to create a mood for your audience. An audience wants to feel emotions and you steer them by creating different moods. They want to feel uplifted, happy, reflective, moody, sad, poignant, etc. They want to laugh out loud and cry inside. The almighty "W" allows you to achieve this. Playing a show is more than just playing good music. It's all about entertaining the audience and giving them what they want - emotions.
Hope this helps.
Ed

Regular Guy says, "Nuffs enuff"
www.customscrimshaw.com
Email: edweber@customscrimshaw.com