Prewar3 - Posted - 09/18/2009:  05:41:26

There is a great looking Retro 4 on ebay starting at 2900 without reserve. Whats the thought on these?

Jim Prewar3

Randy Escobedo - Posted - 09/18/2009:  07:21:01

These are great sounding banjos. Wonderful to play and excellent craftsmanship.

miiloo - Posted - 09/18/2009:  08:40:38

Jim,
What are your thoughts on the '95 rb-4? It's rough, but may be a heck of a deal. Nasty buckel rash on the reso. Do you know if back then the run was as limited as the 40 of the Retro 4's?
Regards,
Milo

Mike Casey - Posted - 09/18/2009:  14:51:42

I like the one I have. It is very well made and finished out. The Ed Weber neck is outstanding and has a great profile. It has the added feature of the french cut heel which is a very nice touch... and found only on the Retro 4s and the Blackjacks. The banjo has the traditional style 4 hearts and flowers inlay and the Mastertone on the peghead. It looks very nice. The Chrome plated metal parts and the walnut wood makes for a wicked tone. In short, it is a very nice banjo of which there are only 40 copies. As far as the number of regular issue style 4's it would be hard to tell how many were made in any one year. I suspect more than 40 per year were made. The 40 Retro 4's will always be a curiosity because they are the only ones with several desireable Gibson Mastertone and style 4 features into one banjo. I know I like the way mine looks and sounds.

Mike Casey
and Pinata del Norte

arnie fleischer - Posted - 09/18/2009:  18:37:19

I second what Mike says. That price is about 30% off what they were selling for new.

Billy Cipri - Posted - 09/19/2009:  13:58:01

I too, readily concur with Mike's remarks, as above. I own Gibson Retro 4, #23 of the 40-unit limited run which I beleive was built very late in '06 or very early '07. After owning it these past two years...my RETROspective assessment is of a singularly distinctive, topnotch and thoroughly-desirable instrument. Can you say..."thrilled owner"?!

To begin with, its overall playability, intonation and 'projection' want for nothing...all-the way-up that superbly comfortable walnut neck and the circa 1925 'visuals'; the wonderful, neck profile and heel configuration and the thin, 'vintage-correct' frets...truly place these (VERY low production) 'pieces' entirely in their own league...with the possible exception of the 'Blackjacks' which do present the similar neck profile. I am in love with its tone, which is 'throaty'...open and VERY growly on the low end, yet with a very clear, pronounced authority and definition...a kind of 'sparkle' that speaks walnut with chrome and from lowest to highest register.

...Moreover, upon an 'A-B' comparison at a nearby jam with someone's vintage 'Mastertone' late last Summer...I was about dumbstruck as to just how CLOSE Gibson has brought these recently-issued 'Retro 4s' into that often-venerated, etherial icon of so-called 'prewar tone'.

As for the 'cosmetics'...the fairly straight-grained walnut nonetheless displays some nice figure and 'curl'...with a vintage, understated kind of elegance...which I personally prefer aesthetically...over much more commonly-seen 'burl'. The bindings have a lovely...(if perhaps TOO-intense)...golden-yellow hue which Gibson probably feels would evoke or emulate owning a vintage mid-to-late 1920s model and contrast wonderfully with the aged-looking walnut finish.

...The 'fiddle' headstock configuration with 'Mastertone' inlaid into the headstock, (again circa 1925 and a VERY desirable touch)...does attract quite its share of attention and comments. For some reason, the fretboard on this instrument likewise garners (unexpected) interest...possibly because the wood is very pleasing to both eyes and hands, yet for being somewhat unusual or distinctive-looking it is also uncommonly comfortable to play on.

I really can't praise the deeply-plated chrome hardware enough...with its slightly-bluish lustre it possibly lends a certain, very subtle clarity to the tone...looks wonderful against the 'antiqued' walnut finish and best of all...NEVER demands the arduous upkeep of more 'mundane', nickel plating. I expect it will ALWAYS look good...with just a quick, gentle wipe-down. It absolutely blows nickel away...both in appearance and even more in sheer practicality.

An 'iceing' on this fine 'cake' is the numbered, parchment hand-signed certificate which accompanies each 'Retro 4' inside the attractive, hardshell case...(which includes a folding 'shroud' to further guard both finish and case lining.)

Packing one of these to a gig or jam is a sure and certain way to generate curiosity and interest from other 'astute' players and will initiate any number of conversations...something one grows accustomed to.

One final thought to offer...owning one of these 'Retro 4s' has been nothing short of a rewarding pleasure and on every conceivable level. Acquire one if you can find one, for it will NOT disappoint! Gibson applied its best efforts into building these, it shows in every detail. Each one is a genuine beauty, the possesion of which places you in company amongst a tiny group of (truly fortunate) and eminently enviable owners.

Billy C.

Edited by - Billy Cipri on 09/22/2009 15:16:44

Prewar3 - Posted - 09/20/2009:  07:12:03

There is the one on ebay that is #15/40 and if anyone is interested the fella selling it will take $2900 plus 100 shipping. Drop me an email at Prewar3@aol.com and I'll give you his email address. JIm

Jim Prewar3

silvioferretti - Posted - 09/20/2009:  12:52:17

Mike, what is the "French cut heel"? And why do you think they used walnut for a repro model which - at the time it was built with a TPF and a fiddle peghead - was made of mahogany? Just curious... (BTW, you guys make me want to get ahold of that Retro -4 on eBay...).

"If you're gonna have a vice, try to find one that will keep you outta jail and maybe alive a little longer" - Alvin Youngblood Hart.

Silvio Ferretti http://www.scorpionmusic.com
http://www.redwinemusic.net

Mike Casey - Posted - 09/21/2009:  15:40:17

Silvio,
The french cut heel is one that has a curve to its profile which subtly sweeps from neck line at the top to the heel cap like this -> ). It keeps the strap centered on the heel. Ed Weber executed these necks beautifully. With Ed gone from Gibson I don't think there is any chance these will be done again.

From the 1925 "Mastertone" on the Hearts and flowers inlaid DC peghead to the OPF flathead pot assembly this is a unique 40 unit run that sprakles with looks and sound. The chrome plating is 60's Detroit Blingtiful, POWerful! The few I have played have a distinct sound that is what I would call solid, quick and with a whip like crack to it. It is a good performing, easy to play banjo that likes the microphone. Its a chrome cool walnut warm banjo.

Mike Casey
and Pinata del Norte

Edited by - Mike Casey on 09/21/2009 15:47:34

arnie fleischer - Posted - 09/21/2009:  17:35:26

Once again I'll second what Mike says and add that mine (#25) has very good note separation and a distinct dryness to its tone, both of which qualities - to my ear - were enhanced after I replaced the original bridge with a Sullivan factory floor bridge - the only change I've made to the original setup done by First Quality before they shipped it to me. The neck is one of the most comfortable, playable necks I have ever come across. It is really fun to play.


Arnie

fitch5string - Posted - 09/21/2009:  17:41:58

I love the looks of the Retro 4 with the exception of the yellow binding. I think Gibson went way overboard with that. It looks too lemon yellow instead of an "aged" yellow. Chrome was made for walnut in my opinion.

FITCH BANJOS
www.FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

grich - Posted - 09/21/2009:  17:53:02

Cliff

Why don't you take that lemon binding and squeeze it into a glass of water and make some lemonade to go with those damn baloney sandwiches of yours

grich - Posted - 09/21/2009:  17:53:48

Cliff

Why don't you take that lemon binding and squeeze it into a glass of water and make some lemonade to go with those damn baloney sandwiches of yours

fitch5string - Posted - 09/21/2009:  18:06:40

Now Greg dont leave me HANGING......... : )

FITCH BANJOS
www.FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

Billy Cipri - Posted - 09/21/2009:  19:16:04

After reading Cliff's above remarks per the 'lemon yellow binding' detail in this run...it brought to mind my own first impression upon receiving the banjo from Fuller's, in Texas which was...that Gibson was perhaps 'over the top' within the confines of this single detail. It really wasn't necessary to make the binding color THAT overwrought on a brand new banjo...even if it was attempting to evoke a genuine vintage 'vibe' and give the owner a likeness of posessing a pristine vintage instrument...which is unquestionably what Gibson intended to present.

BUT...after viewing a few genuine, vintage 1920s Gibson instruments (both banjos and acoustic guitars)...I'll admit that the bindings on really old Gibson banjos...(if they are wholly intact at all)...do indeed naturally deepen CONSIDERABLY in color...they actually do 'yellow' quite a lot over extended periods of time...depending also on how the banjo was stored over the years...physical environment...tobacco smoke exposure...and etc. The 'issue' here is that this binding on the 'Retro 4s' is 'overdone' somewhat to the point where it stands out, perhaps excessively and thus appears rather...'contrived'?!

...A minor point, taken within the context of correct perspective...on what is otherwise, overall a truly fine offering, to be sure. As time passes...HOW this already 'synthetically aged', deep-yellowish binding may further 'morph' is something yet to be observed collectively by the owners...possibly of the present...certainly of the future.

Although initially, I likewise had dissed this feature for being, as mentioned...somewhat 'overwrought'...now I find myself minding it less and less and merely remind myself that WITHOUT IT (or something akin to it)...it is entirely possible that the 'Retro 4' would then somehow be 'lacking'...insofar as what it was INTENDING to evoke.

Billy C.

Edited by - Billy Cipri on 09/22/2009 18:05:41

fitch5string - Posted - 09/21/2009:  19:51:05

I agree Billy. If they had mixed some brown in with the yellow and diluted it a little more, it would have been a better match to the prewar 4's.

FITCH BANJOS
www.FitchBanjos.com
Hand-Crafted Professional Banjos
Burlile Tone Rings

obxpix - Posted - 09/22/2009:  17:29:55

If you are interested in a Retro 4, I know where I can get you one brand new, never played, still with warranty card ready to be sent in, for $2800.....Email me if interested...

***********************************
MILLS/SKAGGS
2012
***********************************

Billy Cipri - Posted - 09/22/2009:  17:33:06

Thanks, Cliff! I had mentioned how surprisingly-well the 'Retro 4' held its own against a vintage pre-war model in a basic tone comparison at a small, area bluegrass jam in '08. This was all-the-more impressive...because at that time she was barely 20 months old and had relatively VERY few hours on her...hence, not by any means fully 'opened up' or played-in!!! (This would lend me to contemplate that, given time...I might expect even BETTER 'performance'?!)

I'd be extremely interested to hear from other 'Retro 4' owners on their observations in this regard. Especially if someone has been able to A-B their 'Retro 4' against a mahogany Huber Lancaster or a walnut Huber Roanoke...two contemporary banjos which hold a secure reputation of closely replicating that 'pre-war Gibson vibe'!

I did realize that it would be rather uncommon to come across a genuine, pre-war Gibson, (albeit a very 'tired' yet toneful one)...at a mundane, amateur bluegrass 'jam'...which is what I was fortunate-enough to be able to encounter, quite unexpectedly with my 'Retro 4' at hand.







Billy C.

Edited by - Billy Cipri on 09/22/2009 17:44:19

Randall - Posted - 09/22/2009:  18:24:13

I would have one! It's one of the best banjos Gibson has produced since the reissue era started.

I have played two of them. Excellent banjos

Randall

Wyatt Banjos - Creating the sounds of yesteryear, today!

Randall - Posted - 09/22/2009:  18:25:12

I would have one! It's one of the best banjos Gibson has produced since the reissue era started.

I have played two of them. Excellent banjos

Randall

Wyatt Banjos - Creating the sounds of yesteryear, today!

obxpix - Posted - 09/23/2009:  16:32:51

To all that emailed me, I called and the banjo sold a couple of weeks ago....It was brand new at the local Gibson dealer here in VA...they actually sold it for $2600....

***********************************
MILLS/SKAGGS
2012
***********************************

Billy Cipri - Posted - 09/23/2009:  19:23:43

This comes as no surprise...they tend to go rather quickly when one appears at all and this one apparently was as brand new, previously unsold.

...Someone now owns an awfully nice, heirloom-grade future collectible for a mere outlay of $2,600! I purchased mine new for $4,100 and even that was a considerable mark down at that time from the $4,900 range at which most of these were originally offered, when newly issued from Gibson.

The poor economy no-doubt helped bring this about to the favor of the astute individual who has acquired this one.

Billy C.

Edited by - Billy Cipri on 09/23/2009 19:28:19

72chevy - Posted - 09/24/2009:  04:48:24

thanks for that lead Kevin. Man, What a deal. Any of you other retro rb4 owners care to post some picures? I was having some trouble finding some good pictures on the web.

thanks,

Tommy

obxpix - Posted - 09/24/2009:  05:48:36

Funny thing is, that banjo had been sitting on the wall for over 2 years now....I had played it several times, a really nice banjo....He offered it to me at that price about 3 or 4 weeks ago, which shocked me!
Also, IMO it pretty much is another example that negates the old every other day Gibson threads from the newbies and haters about "Why is Gibson so overpiced".....IMO they are no higher priced than Stellings, Hubers, Fitch's, Deerings, or any other American made banjo....the actual price of what they sell the banjo to the dealer for is virtually the same, as evidenced here...this dealer has been selling brand new ESS's for $3100, RB3 Wreath's for the $3100, and RB250s for $2300 for the last 2 or 3 years.....And I certainly don't think he was selling them at a loss!

***********************************
MILLS/SKAGGS
2012
***********************************

arnie fleischer - Posted - 09/24/2009:  09:59:00

Billy, I can't give you my opinion about how my Retro-4 stacks up against a Huber because I haven't played a Huber in quite some time. I can compare it to my walnut DP Hopkins Renaissance, however, with the caveat that this is only my personal opinion, based on my personal preferences in terms of looks, playability and tone (in no particular order), and most significantly, based on how these banjos respond to my particular touch.

That said, I think the Hopkins delivers a richer, fatter, warmer sound all along the neck. The Hopkins tone is also more nuanced with more sustain, slower note decay, and less dryness to the tone. I like the original Hopkins inlay pattern a lot more than the Gibson hearts and flowers pattern. The Hopkins neck is very close to, if not the equal of, the Retro-4 in terms of playability.

Please understand, though, that none of this negates what I said earlier about the Retro-4. I like it a lot.

The Old Timer - Posted - 09/24/2009:  10:02:55

Re: lemon yellow binding, my 26 Granada binding is just as white as can be, and it has been played LOTS (including long before I got it). I think the key is, there doesn't appear to be any varnish over the white binding... I believe it's actually the varnish/finish that yellows, not the binding itself. At least on old ones.

The Old Timer.
"Mommy, does Jesus play the banjo?" Huck Paisley (Brad Paisley's little boy) quoted in PEOPLE, Sept. 21, 2009

Billy Cipri - Posted - 09/24/2009:  19:41:09

Thank you, Arnie for providing your experience! Very much regretful that I am totally unfamiliar with Hopkins banjos, myself...but that comparison and your subsequent assessment was quite interesting to read.

Having never owned a REALLY old banjo or other stringed instrument...I can't claim to know too much about how vintage lacquer would change over time or exactly what material Gibson used for those old bindings...but Old Timer's observation is well-taken and perhaps someone else can shed more light on those vintage lacquers and binding materials...as to how they 'change' over many years or decades.

...Again, thanks for your input, fellas!



Billy C.

Edited by - Billy Cipri on 09/25/2009 17:28:00

arnie fleischer - Posted - 09/25/2009:  13:57:25

Billy, you can check out the DP Hopkins and LouZee banjos at www.louzee.com.

Arnie