Right on Rhythm - Posted - 09/02/2009:  05:17:52

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My Grandfathers Banjo
Wednesday, September 02, 2009 @5:14:28 AM

I have my Grandfathers EL Bailey tenor banjo. He lived in Brooklyn during the 20's and know that is where the Bailey Banjo's came from.

I have been told that EL Bailey did not number his instruments but this one has a 01 or 10 embossed into the drum shell where the neck attaches.

Can anyone shed light on this?

Wayne



Wayne

Right on Rhythm - Posted - 09/02/2009:  06:10:18

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Thanks
but did not find a tenor Forum

Wayne

Ronnie - Posted - 09/02/2009:  07:28:21

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A few Bailey's have surfaced here from time to time. Hopefully someone will respond.

www.bobbythompsonbanjo.com

NYCJazz - Posted - 09/02/2009:  07:35:51

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Here's a previous thread on the subject:

http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/a...IC_ID=132089

BTW this is the proper place to post. There is a "Tenor/Plectrum playing advice" area, but this is where the historical experts gather!



Nathan



Jazz makes an art of vulgarity; is monotonous; pornographic, and often outrageously funny; and is replete with intellectual and cultural pretensions.

-Ernest Bacon

beezaboy - Posted - 09/02/2009:  08:09:06

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I now have two Bailey 17 fret banjos. They both have tags "inlaid" flush on the dowel (aka "the stick") that state:
"ED. L. BAILEY
maker
Brooklyn, N.Y."
Now we have two references to "EL Bailey". Different tag?
I would love to know more about Ed L. Bailey but have found nothing on the internet.
Someone will have to sit down with 1920's city directory in the NYC or Brooklyn library to see if more can be found.
As for the "10" stamped on the rim...I have seen this before and speculate that these numbers were stamped by the manufacturer (maybe Oscar Schmidt over in Jersey City) to facilitate ordering this part (rim # 10) by banjo makers in the area or elsewhere.

Beezaboy

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Edited by - beezaboy on 09/02/2009 08:15:21

BrittDLD1 - Posted - 09/02/2009:  08:37:12

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quote:

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Originally posted by beezaboy
... As for the "10" stamped on the
rim...I have seen this before and speculate that these numbers were stamped
by the manufacturer (maybe Oscar Schmidt over in Jersey City) to facilitate
ordering this part (rim # 10) by banjo makers in the area or elsewhere. ..

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Hi Beeze-
Yes, numbers like that are fairly common for "trade" banjos. They can be model
numbers, rim-type identifiers, batch numbers, or sometimes even a price code.

Sometimes they are assembly identifiers. The inner surface of the heel, or top of
the dowel is also stamped -- so the correct neck can be re-united to its prior-fitted
rim, after finishing.

Best-
Ed Britt

••• A good fiddle tune will bring two or more people together who might otherwise be enemies. •••

beezaboy - Posted - 09/02/2009:  12:28:05

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Thanks Ed. I've usually seen the "10" stamped on top of the rim so guessed that they were probably in the #10 bin at the factory.
I also had a revelation about why Ed. L. Bailey placed his tag in a carefully cut "notch" in the dowel so the tag lay nicely flush with the dowel. I figure Bailey was making the necks and ordering the rims with precut opening to slide the dowel into. If the tag is nailed to the dowel it it catches on the rim opening when sliding it in and makes it hard to slip it into the rim without disfiguring the tag...or nail the tag on after the banjo is assembled. Bailey's way would enable him to easily slide the dowel into the rim opening for a nice fit and no chance the maker tag would inhibit the process of joining the neck to the rim.

Beezaboy

BrittDLD1 - Posted - 09/02/2009:  18:33:32

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quote:

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Originally posted by beezaboy

.. I would love to know more about Ed L. Bailey but have found nothing on the internet.Someone will have to sit down with 1920's city directory in the NYC or
Brooklyn library to see if more can be found. ...

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Hi Beeze--
After a quick Google search -- the name which pops up most often,
is a Col. Edward L Bailey from the 2nd NH Volunteers. He fought at Gettysburg,
and later out west, in the Indian Wars. But I doubt he is our banjomaking Bailey...

But... one citation yeilded something of great historical interest -- even though
it has NOTHING directly to do with Bailey banjos...

I stumbled onto the name of a banjo player, James W. Blake -- who was an
"ambulance driver" (horse-drawn wagon) during the civil war. Only a small
number of banjo players have been identified, who were known to be active
military in the CW.

I'll send this info off to George Wunderlich -- for his database. As well as
being a well-known minstrel banjo maker, player, and historian -- George is
the Director of The National Museum of Civil War Medicine. So this fits right
in with his research!

From:
http://www.archive.org/details/hist...econdr00hayn

"A history of the Second regiment, New Hampshire volunteer infantry,
in the war of the rebellion"

Page 84:



The caption reads:

The Surgeon and his Assistants, No. 1,
From Photograph taken at Bladensburg in August, 1861.

1-- A civilian named Leach, servant of Dr. Hubbard.

2 -- John C. W. Moore, Co. B. Was promoted to Asst. -Surgeon Eleventh N. H., Jan. 3, 1863.
Was from Concord, and now a practicing physician there.

3 -- James W. Blake, Co. D. The ambulance driver, full of fun, mischievous as a monkey, a
good banjo player and singer -- the life of the hospital. Familiarly known as " Wes."

Never overlook a shining little nugget like this -- while looking for something else.
(And now back to our proper Topic -- the E L Bailey banjos...)

Best-
Ed Britt

••• A good fiddle tune will bring two or more people together who might otherwise be enemies. •••

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Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 09/02/2009 18:36:26

Right on Rhythm - Posted - 09/02/2009:  18:47:45

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Thanks all for the info
differences I note
My banjo has 18 frets
the brass tag that is on the stick is not inlaid but surface mounted
reads:
E.L. Bailey
Everything Musical
455 - 5th Avenue
Brooklyn, N.Y.

Wayne

beezaboy - Posted - 09/03/2009:  03:16:29

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Oh Wow, Rhythm, Thanks... I've been searching high and low for a New York address for Ed. L. Bailey. Your E.L. Bailey in Brooklyn must be the same person as Ed. L. Bailey, maker, Brooklyn and he changed his tag. My tags are celluloid appearing...yours is brass. Gibson made an 18 fret tenor so maybe Bailey was influenced. The 17 fret tenor was mainly extant ca. 1916 - 1921 and both of my Bailey's are 17 fret.

(Uh oh...maybe Ed. L. Bailey was son or brother of EL. Ed made banjos and sold them through his Dad's or Brother's store "Everything Musical". But in any event we now have an address. BTW...I got Lawrence Yosco's New York City address from an instrument tag!!)

Beezaboy

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Edited by - beezaboy on 09/03/2009 03:25:17

Right on Rhythm - Posted - 09/03/2009:  03:59:59

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are Bailey banjos rare?
I just had this one bridged/restrung

Wayne

beezaboy - Posted - 09/03/2009:  10:29:16

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I collect NYC area maker and distributor tenor banjos so I'm watching for them. You do not see many Bailey banjos so I would say "scarce" might sum up their availability in the marketplace. Then, too, I suspect there is not a great demand for them as they are not unique or distinctive or popular like Vega or Bacon or Gibson or Epiphone or Orpheum or Paramount (some popular brands from the 1920's).

Beezaboy

ballbanjos - Posted - 09/04/2009:  15:15:01

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Bailey made some interesting banjos. I've had several, and no two have been alike. I have one tenor that has a scalloped rim and a closed back--leaving little crescent shaped sound holes all around the bottom side of the rim. Another is a mando banjo, with a very interesting aluminum archtop tonering. A third one has a 13" rim, with an archtop tonering similar to the aluminum one but made out of brass. The banjos remind me a lot of the Puntolillo banjos, especially the rims (but not the tone rings). The necks don't really look like any other necks I'm familiar with. I think he was really building the banjos, but might have gotten his rims from another source. Who knows...

Dave

PS--there was recently a Bailey five string on Ebay that I wish I had bought. It had an internal resonator, but the inside rim was cone shaped rather than cylindrical. Very cool...Here's a link to that auction for as long as it stays out there:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...t_500wt_1182

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Edited by - ballbanjos on 09/04/2009 15:17:44