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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Thank You Patrick Costello


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link.

Banjo75 - Posted - 08/13/2009:  21:50:22


I just wanted to thank Patrick Costello. I hear so much bad stuff being said about him here and there and it's funny because he already has had his account locked and he's been banned.

While I still to this day don't fully understand why he was banned, I have not protested it either. I figured a decision was made. I have protested some decisions but so many people were in favor of it that I just figured something had happened and I had missed it.

Say what you want about the man, he has helped me. His book got me started. It wasn't Dan Levenson's book (although that's great too) and it wasn't some other book. His book is what opened the world of banjo to me and his video on how to change a banjo head was how I learned how to do that.

Whether Patrick is the player Dan Levenson is (he isn't) doesn't matter to me. Almost no one is the player Dan Levenson is. It isn't a failure to be second place to Dan... "that's like saying, RATS... I am not as good as Mike Seeger... I might as well quit."

The truth is this, Patrick's personality has the plusses and minuses that every one of our personalities has. Is he extreme at times, sure.... BUT sometimes he is extremely generous. His youtube videos are all free. His instructional book is free. I know only one other guy offering that. They both should be lauded for those books, not criticized.

I am not saying everybody has to or should like Patrick Costello, but I am saying to go around saying he has nothing to offer the banjo world is utterly ridiculous.

He is becoming the Pete Rose of the banjo hangout and I still don't see how he has been any more inflammatory than anybody else. Now again, maybe I missed the horrid thread he was in... but by the same token I have seen the many videos and instructional videos he offers free of charge.

He also took time to email me encouragement when I was starting to play.... I really appreciated that. He was someone who kept me going.

Look, the guy has had a tough life. We know about his epilepsy, his hearing issues, etc.

He's lead the tough life of the mountain banjo player. Suffered like Proffitt or Dock Boggs. Doesn't make him a better person than all of use but it should give him a little bit of leeway in our criticism.

Through all of this, regardless if he goes "off" here and there, he has continued to try to help people play and for free.

I am not asking for his reinstatement, but what I am saying is that Patrick Costello is no different from any one of those old time mountain banjar players. His personality is just as quirky and as unique.

Love him or hate him as you may... but don't question his passion or ability for the banjo.

You don't kick a dog when he's already down.


...................................................................................................................................................
I have sung in hobo jungles, and I have sung for the Rockefellers, and I am proud that I have never refused to sing for anybody. - Pete Seeger


Edited by - Banjo75 on 08/13/2009 21:52:47

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/13/2009:  22:03:56


Patrick is really great at what he does, and has helped many learners like yourself. He's generous with his time and his material. Sadly, he often tends to belittle those who take another route or want to play different material. I don't know the specifics of his being banned here. I do know that his abrasive posts on banjo-l got him cut off there. But I'll never attack him for all the good things he's done or say he has nothing to share--he has plenty, and it's good stuff. It's just not all there is to know about playing banjo.

Bill

brokenstrings - Posted - 08/13/2009:  22:13:56


Where did that come from? I haven't heard anybody attacking Pat lately.

Right, he is generous. Unfortunately, he's also given to locking horns with folks.

Jessy

Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!

Alan Hill - Posted - 08/13/2009:  22:59:08


Pat got me hooked on the banjo and as time went by i found the style that i like to play (at least try) being melodic and enjoy learning from Ken Perlmans books
i still follow Pat and enjoy his teachings and find it a shame about the troubles that have happened in the past with Pat but good on him i say !

alan



oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/14/2009:  00:30:06


That's funny. The only personal attacks I recall reading here were against Bill Rogers and Judy.

I'd like to hear an apology for that attack.

I've also said (on more than one occasion) that I wouldn't mind seeing Pat back on this forum, but only if he personally and publicly apologises for all the personal attacks he has made here first.

I'm all for forgive and forget - but first you have to denounce your sins and do your pennance. And Prtick has not been locked out of BHO one single time. I've counted 3 lockouts since I've been here, and people then were talking about earlier lockouts.

Now can we talk about banjos? Or playing the banjo? Or listening to BANJO?

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material




Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 08/14/2009 00:33:33

Alpha Omicron - Posted - 08/14/2009:  00:55:16


The only time I ever disagreed with Patrick was when he told people to stay away from banjo forums because they're full of losers.
I sometimes wonder if he was right after all, but here I am.

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 08/14/2009:  04:35:33


Any of you folks want to volunteer to do a Tune of the Week?

October forward is WIDE open.

Just email me at inquiry@siliconheights.com

For those of you new to this topic, please refer to the "sticky" topic at http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=125151

********************************************************************''
Adam Hurt is coming to Albuquerque to perform a solo gig
on October 8th. Also will be holding fiddle and banjo classes.
Balloon Fiesta Week - you might want to plan a trip and join
the fun and lovely weather.
Email me for more information: inquiry@siliconheights.com
*********************************************************************

Skyraider50 - Posted - 08/14/2009:  09:37:36


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL1rrjAQMFc
sorry..............

Life is hard. Being stupid makes it harder--John Wayne

Alpha Omicron - Posted - 08/14/2009:  10:54:19


Judy: Your post seems out-of-place, are you trying to insinuate that Patrick fans don't contribute to the Hangout?
I could guess why: I'm hesitant to upload anything here because I'm sure that people would come out of the woodwork telling me I don't play the right kind banjo, I don't play the right kind of banjo music, or I don't live in the right place, or that I'm not old-timey enough (whatever that's even supposed to mean). Any contributions I make in the near future will be to Tangier Sound. If people want to see them, they can go there or have a look at my YouTube channel or something.

Skyraider: I don't get the joke...

WGE - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:03:59


Alpha Omicron, sounds like you have a good plan, go for it.

KE - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:05:18


How does this accomplish anything other than continuing to stir the stinkpot?

If you want to thank Patrick, by all means contact him and express your gratitude. But insomuch as he is not a member HERE, this seems to be nothing more than poking a stick in the eye.

Alpha Omicron, I read Judy's post as an attempt to redirect the discussion to something more productive. I didn't see anything directed at you, your style of music or your residency. Contribution to music is a good thing -- find a place you'd like to do it and be happy.

cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:18:13


I would like for Bill or Judy to define "Professional" .... they said patrick was not a professional.... and maybe some of the confusion is coming from how they define that term?

It is important that we operationalize 'vague' terms.

cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:20:37


Alpha--- i have played 5 string in many bands, and with many people, all over the country, and even won a few festival contests. It is rare that I have heard anyone who is a great player, frequently comment, or speak highly of this forum...

KE - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:25:19


quote:
Originally posted by cosmicbanjo

Alpha--- i have played 5 string in many bands, and with many people, all over the country, and even won a few festival contests. It is rare that I have heard anyone who is a great player, frequently comment, or speak highly of this forum...





This sounds a bit like peeing in the public pool.

chip arnold - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:29:54


Hey, here's a great idea Alpha Omicron, why don't you upload something and see what really happens instead of making unfounded declarations. I was (and still am) a little insecure about posting sound files here.......I love this music and what I play is close to my heart, so laying it out there can make me feel a little vulnerable. But I did it and I've been glad that I did. My playing is not what everyone likes and yours won't be either. So what? Why are we making music if we aren't wiling to share. Have you listened to the range of music posted here? Spend fifteen minutes with the BHO jukebox and you'll see that there are tons of people playing downpicking styles (as Patrick teaches) that are far from the center of what is usually called Old Time.

There are good people here on this forum. Lots of good people. Some of us pop off now and then but it's clear that you do too. So maybe you'll fit right in ;-)


**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:33:46


STiILL waiting for a definition of professional.

If you are going to say someone is not a professional, please let me know what a professional is!

robertsart - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:34:21


quote:
Originally posted by cosmicbanjo

Alpha--- i have played 5 string in many bands, and with many people, all over the country, and even won a few festival contests. It is rare that I have heard anyone who is a great player, frequently comment, or speak highly of this forum...





...then why are you wasting your time here?

Scott Roberts
www.oldgroove.com







cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:35:27


And alright KE---- five me a list of 'professional' (which we have yet to define) musicians who speak very highly of the forum? I for one know some of the best players don't (and no im not going to list names as that would be rude to them)

cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:36:59


Honestly, I dont like to see anyone spoken badly about (i.e. not being a 'professional) with no justification.

I am not a regular on this forum... but maybe this topic is a bit of a hot button for me


cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:38:32


p.s. I can out pick any of you... bring it on if you want... I may be arrogant, but I can back it up...

KE - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:52:08


quote:
Originally posted by cosmicbanjo

And alright KE---- five me a list of 'professional' (which we have yet to define) musicians who speak very highly of the forum? I for one know some of the best players don't (and no im not going to list names as that would be rude to them)





Why?

chip arnold - Posted - 08/14/2009:  11:56:20


"It is rare that I have heard anyone who is a great player, frequently comment, or speak highly of this forum..."

You too might have a listen to the BHO jukebox. There are many great players here on this site every day.

"....even won a few festival contests."

As have many of the great players here on this site. So what is your point? And why on earth are you posting this stuff on a thread that's supposed to thank someone?

As for Patrick. I've stayed off these threads for a long time now because it dawned on me that there is nothing I can see in Patrick's behavior that is even close to wrong things that I've done in my own life. So I'm trying to learn to shut up. (Not doing so well here) Patrick has definately helped a lot of people to get started with music. And it's clear that a lot of folks really like him and his teaching. But there are those who think that for the player who wants to focus on old time fiddle tunes or a more melodic approach in general, Patrick's teaching may not be as helpful as that of some others. Whether someone thinks that pinion is right or wrong is beside the point. It's a legitimate opinion. The problem is that since there have been such highly emotional confrontations here in the past, people jump through the roof whenever anyone suggests that in their opinion there may be a teacher more (or less) appropriate for the person asking for advice. People often suggest that Ken Perlman's material may not be what a seeker of advice on singing backup or grandpa Jones style frailing needs. I've never seen a single instance of offense taken over that. Many times people have said that they benefitted from woodchuck's material but not Dan's or Dan's but not woodchucks. Nobody flies off the handel over it. The fact that any mention of Patrick is so emotionally charged is a reaction to the past. Yes, it would be lovely if everyone would forgive, forget and get all warm and fuzzy. It really would. But that goes for Patrick's defenders as well as his detractors.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

KE - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:08:28


From my desk dictionary:

professional

1. conforming to the ethical or technical standards of a profession
2. exhibiting a courteous, generally business-like manner in the workplace
3. gaining livelihood [being paid] in a field (e.g. sports) also engaged in by amateurs
4. having a permanent career in

Nosferatu - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:09:29


I think it's time the Mods check some IP numbers on these "Patrick" topics.

Thank you,
"Count Hugh"

"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a danish." -- Zen philosopher Basho

chip arnold - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:09:32


Cos, I looked at your homepage for sound files and only found this: Music (0 files) Maybe you should "bring it on" You can probably play banjo better than I can but "any of you" is a pretty strong statement. Hope you'll post some tunes or direct folks to a cd or something.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

Daveasti - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:10:12


I speak highly of the forum. It's great. There's some cranky people and there are some foolish posts, but who cares? The vast majority of the stuff here is positive and good for everything banjo. I learned so much and met some great folks. Plus one of the best classified sections going.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:15:36


----" p.s. I can out pick any of you... bring it on if you want... I may be arrogant, but I can back it up..."

THANK YOU! For the funniest post of the day! We have crowned a new King Troll!



------------------
Bill

I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

cosmicbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:16:43


quote:
Originally posted by KE

From my desk dictionary:

professional

1. conforming to the ethical or technical standards of a profession
2. exhibiting a courteous, generally business-like manner in the workplace
3. gaining livelihood [being paid] in a field (e.g. sports) also engaged in by amateurs
4. having a permanent career in





Well Patrick fits ALL of thost critera. Therefore I am disappointed in Bill for calling him "not so much" a professional . Shame on those that let him get away this this!

robertsart - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:18:26


quote:
Originally posted by cosmicbanjo

p.s. I can out pick any of you... bring it on if you want... I may be arrogant, but I can back it up...







I can honestly say that of all of the incredible banjo players I've heard play, not one has ever felt a need to tell me how incredible they are.






Scott Roberts
www.oldgroove.com







f#dead - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:21:43


Who is Patrick? Should I care?

"We''re lost. But we''re makin good time".

janolov - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:28:42


quote:
Originally posted by f#dead

Who is Patrick? Should I care?

"We''re lost. But we''re makin good time".



Don't bother about him. As soon as you post the name Patrick here there will be 50 posts from members who adores him , and another 50 posts from member who dislike him, and none of the posts is about banjo or banjo playing....

.

Jan-Olov

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/14/2009:  12:30:51


Enough of bashing Patrick, he's not even here to defend himself. This topic is going nowhere but downhil.. It's locked.

Let''s Pick!
Texas Banjo



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