Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/14/2009:  07:34:24

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I have been having trouble getting a consistent cluck. Does it help to keep the fingernails a little longer on the middle or ring finger? Currently I only leave the index finger a little longer then the rest since that's the one I use to play. I noticed on the Rocket Science lesson the Woodchucks fingernails are quite long. If not the nails maybe I'm just not striking the strings at the correct angle. It looks easy when everyone else does it. I have been learning a lot of songs using advanced TABS to avoid the cluck in the beginner versions.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/14/2009:  13:33:24

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Doug,
First off how long have you been playing. I ask because The Cluck is not really a Basic technique. It should be labeled something like lesson 41, but Alan put up the site and we didn't think anyone would see it as the Next lesson at that time. We were pretty wrong about that. If you have the book Rocket Science Banjo you won't find the cluck until somewhere in the 4th chapter. The book is free.

If you are absolutely comfy with the basic strokes, have some repertoire under your belt and like the sound of the big cluck - by all means keep at it.

It is easier to learn with long nails but once you have it, the cluck can be applied with shorter nails. I keep my nails long because they wear fast and grow slow. Sometimes I have to frail with my Ring finger. The Pinky nail is kept very long as I used to use it for special effects as well as clucking - I haven't been doing stuff like that lately as the arthritus tends to throw off my rhythm when I do fancies.


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/15/2009:  07:51:11

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I have been playing clawhammer about 7 months. I tried to play three finger for about 6 months before that. I enjoy clawhammer much more. I started by learning basic strokes by watching videos such as yours. Then I started learning songs from tabs. At this point I can play quite a few songs like Kitchen Girl, Frosty Morn, John Henry, Cluck Old Hen. I have no problem with hammer on pull off or drop thumbing. I've learned many songs from Dan Levenson's Old Time Festival Tunes and some Dwight Dillers tabs that I found on the banjo hangout. I'm just getting to the point that I can figure out songs on my own by ear. Its like once I know a lick or a technique then it is a tool for building from then on. For some reason the "cluck" has eluded me. It sounds right about one in ten times. I guess I will let all the nails on my right hand grow out a little and see if that helps.

Listening to songs, watching videos and reading posts on the BHO has helped me learn at an accelerated rate.

I have only heard of one clawhammer player living in my area that I might be able to take a lesson from. If I can track him down I'm sure that would help even more.

Uncle Sinner - Posted - 07/15/2009:  11:41:09

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it's probably just a matter of getting the angle and hand placement right. for what it's worth, some banjos cluck better than others, though I still don't know exactly why that is. my goodtime has a crap cluck compared to the cheapie hohner I used to play.

Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/15/2009:  13:14:12

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I'm sure I'll get it some day. When I first started clawhammer it helped to have my nail longer, now it's not as important. This may be the same way.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/15/2009:  13:20:45

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Big Doug

If you havent got RSB the ebook I strongly suggest it. There is a several page explanation of The Big Cluck and other clucks in chapter 4 - and about 40 tabs, of songs tunes etc.

One of the clues to the cluck is finding a harmonic node. While technically almost any spot where you hit the strings will produce some harmonic, it might not be overly audible.

With a scooped banjo I go for the 19th fret harmonic - which is one of the BIG ones. Try just striking a open string with you frailing nail at the 19th fret. Move it around a little until you get the sound. This is the small cluck, and can be done at any time but sometimes with difficulty over the fingerboard. once you have the 19th fret harmonic try moving down over the head and looting for the 24th fret harmonic - if you banjo has 22 frets you should be able to find it easily by visualizing wher the next two frets would be. If you still have trouble, get out a ruler and measure the distance from the 12th fret to the bridge. The 24th fret is at the halfway point. This is the harmonic node I use with unscooped banjos - WARNING. The thumb tends to strike a hook or rim every now and again. This can be painful after a while, so figure out how to avoid that.

The rest of the cluck story is in Rocket Science Banjo. You can download it from the site below. It is FREE!


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/15/2009:  13:48:24

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I will try moving up and down the neck looking for the magic cluck spot.

BTW, I have downloaded RSB and have read much of it. It's a great source of information that is appreciated by me.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/15/2009:  14:33:46

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Thank You. Hearing stuff like that reallly makes my day!


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

JeriH - Posted - 07/15/2009:  17:49:53

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Can you do the cluck on a non-scooped banjo? Mine are scooped, but my teacher's isn't. I want him to teach me the cluck, but he has to learn it himself first!

Jeri

"Happiness is nothing more than good health and a bad memory". -Albert Schweitzer

"It''s what you learn after you know it all that counts". -John Wooden

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/15/2009:  21:01:59

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Jeri,
The Big Cluck which is on the video at my website is actually a sort of crash of fingers into the strings producing a note that is then cut off immediately. This sharp sound quickly stopped gives a very rhythmic version of the brush stroke used by many players, but the sharpness is better for keeping a string band together and moving forward. You don't need any harmonic nodes to do it. It works over the neck or over the head. If you happen to do it on a harmonic node (over the 19th fret or where the 24th would be) you get a harmonic that puts a faint ring in the air.

The little cluck, or normal cluck is simply a matter of playing over a spot that gives you a good solid harmonic and tehre are several means of doing it. I just play either directly over the 19th or 24th fret but it does take some work to get the actual sound. You have to find the harmonic node "exactly", and then make sure your fingernail hits it when you want the cluck to happen - It is one of those "hard to teach other than in person" things, but if you fiddle around doing harmonics for a while you will probably get it.

As to your teacher learning it, tell him to download the book from my website and read his way through chapter 4.1 - this is the explanation for the clucks that I do in my video. Tell him I like to get emails from teachers because they can frequently pinpoint something where my explanation is not clear - I can always use a hand in honing the material to work better. In fact I like to get emails form people who cn't figure out things I say - Again I want to make the book work better.

Once last thing, for many of us nail length and cluck are intertwined. But some people get a better cluck with short nails, and others (like me) get a better cluck with long nails. There is also a school of cluck that seems to combine the big and little clucks into one by dragging a second finger behind the frailer. This finger stops the string that was just struck and sounds a harmonic. I don't do this technique and am not really sure I'm even explaining it right.



If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

Uncle Sinner - Posted - 07/17/2009:  07:08:56

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24th fret??? maybe that's why my goodtime banjo has a crap cluck--there's only 20 or 21 frets. how many does yours have?

Kitt - Posted - 07/17/2009:  07:24:29

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quote:

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24th fret???

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I'll take a crack at answering that. Woodchuck said, 'where the 24th fret would be'. I think he is projecting the distance from the 22nd fret to where the 24th fret would be on the head if a 24th fret existed.

Uncle Sinner - Posted - 07/17/2009:  11:07:31

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hm...in theory the 24th should be louder (as the 12th or octave harmonic tends to be much louder than the harmonics at the 5th and 7th), but I've never heard anyone get a nice "thuck"-y cluck over the head. physics continues to elude me.

Kitt - Posted - 07/17/2009:  11:45:55

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Uncle Sinner,
I just noticed that Woodchuck, in reply before the one you asked about number of frets, said how many frets...22. He also said what I'd guessed he was saying about where 24 would be. Anyway, scroll up if you'd like and read his explanation rather than mine.

Also, as you might know, he does have a video about the cluck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy2iCyrsqr0

Uncle Sinner - Posted - 07/17/2009:  14:17:29

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thanks, sorry I must have skimmed too much. I understand the cluck and can cluck mightily on some banjos; I'm just frustrated that my new one is kind of wimpy in that regard. maybe it'll be better once I scoop out the neck.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/17/2009:  14:59:14

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Uncle Sinner,
You might start by trying to get a standard harmonic on the 19th fret. Put the ball f your finger very lightly on the string and then sound it with your right hand. If you don't get the harmonic ringing directly over the fret move your hand around until you find it. If you find it too far away from the 19th fret your bridge might be off. try the 12th fret harmonic instead. This should be a nice ring an octave above the open string and should be pretty much the same sound the string makes when you fret it entirely. If you get a note that is very off, you will find articles on getting the right "Intonation" on the web - I suggest Googling "banjo intonation". That should find a batch of them.

Once you are over the exact harmonic node you should be able to get the small (normal - whatever you wish to call it) easily with just about any banjo.

the cluck in my video is actually the BIG Cluck and involves a rotation of the wrist, so that the fingers come down straight into the strings, sounding them and immediately stopping them. The best explanation of this is in rocket Science Banjo


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

farmer bob - Posted - 07/18/2009:  06:24:28

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I think its safe to say that 99.9% of all banjo players learn to cluck by accident. If you play for any amount of time over the neck and you let your ring or pinkie finger dangle a little to low you will soon be in cluckville...Bob.

Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/20/2009:  06:30:03

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If I use my thumb and index like I'm holding a pinch of salt I can make a ferocious cluck sound. the problem I think is finding a consistent way to deaden the struck string with another finger. It sounds like there is a lot of different ways to accomplish the cluck. Is the most common to strike with the middle and deaden with the ring finger? Since I play with the index would it be better to strike with the index and deaden with another like the pinkey?

thehallofshields - Posted - 08/02/2009:  16:17:52

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I'm also having a tough time with the Big Cluck.

I can only get it to work with the index and middle when the nail slides past the string and my fingertips dampen the sound. I also have smack the head to get any volume out of this.

I'd really prefer to cluck with my ring and pinky, but can't seem to get the same dynamic. It also tears up my fingers, but callouses never hurt anyone.

Woodchuck, I think you usually do great job of explaining things, but perhaps it might be useful to include a couple of diagrams showing the angle the nails come down onto the strings for this one. - RSB still rulez.

My plan is to drive a couple miles to the rural side of town to study the local Poultry and their perplexing Clucking prowess.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/03/2009:  17:07:51

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hallofshields
Drawing is really not my forte, and I can't seem to find anyone who can draw who understands banjo dynamics. I want to do a new video on the cluck, perhaps using a series of still pictures to get a clean look at it. I also want to try having teh camera over the left shoulder more and looking down and to the right at the hand.

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

thehallofshields - Posted - 08/07/2009:  18:05:31

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I figured that was the case. The technique seems to get much more volume with higher action which my bottom-of-the-line Cleca doesn't seem to like. I'm trying to focus on the correct forearm rotation to get a good angle, but it's a little bit painful. Should it be turning my pinky....well, pink?

Banjolution - Posted - 08/10/2009:  16:07:19

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I too struggle with "The Big Cluck". Been playing about 1 year,and eight months,play 20-25 songs,so I guess Im an intermediate player. I do alot of accidental clucks playing over the scoop. I have developed some of my own cluck exercises,after studying Tony's video,and RSB. I think personally Im overthinking it to much. I also think it's (as Tony mentioned) a difficult technique that takes time. Practice,practice,practice!!
I also must stroke the Woodchucks ego here,and say thanks again for what you have created in RSB!!! I have been able to kind of re-learn how to play CH from it,being a Patrick Costello beginner. Your tabs have been invaluable for me to learn new tunes,and I look forward to someday getting more!


Take care,and Have fun Pickin!!!
Moss

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/10/2009:  16:27:18

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THANK YOU!
I just love compliments.

I'm going to see about getting some help taking a few photographs of the cluck and then see if I can't turn them into a sort of movie and take out enough detail to make the process clearer

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 08/10/2009:  17:50:00

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OWC - have another compliment - & I'm no gusher
RSB is an ecxellent piece of work I've read it over the last few days [- however I couldn't sit an exam as yet]. OK there may be some issue over sequencing re Big clucks position in the scheme of things but TBH the text does explain that its technique for those who've mastered the basics.
I think that RSB is comprehensive and as concise as this sort of text can be, especially considering the ranging abilities of the audience, I feel it's one of those volumes that I'll frequently reference. I also like the way that you redirect to other's resources such as Zepps clear head video - To my mind thats a sign of competence, confidence and a love of the art over Ego.

now I'll sign off before you start weeping :)
many thanks
Chris

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 08/10/2009:  19:39:49

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Well I'm pretty certain there is a fair amount of ego in RSB. But it is "teacher ego". If I tell you that clucking exists but you get it from Zepp's video -- that's still a win for me. If you see what I mean.

I feel that I am developing new ways to teach and refining old ones to better fit the digital era, however I know I am not a member of the digital generation, and I know that I'm not going to produce "the banjo method of the 21st Century". I'm hopelessly lost trying to control anything newer than a VCR, but I would like to be remembered as one of the pioneers who pointed the way before falling by the wayside.

Youtube, MIDI, hyperlinking and things I haven't even learned about yet are going to change the way people look at learning an instrument (not just banjo). I kind of think doing homemade music is going to come back into the mainstream of middle class life as more and more people figure out that the facilities are here to teach adults how to play well enough to have a lot of fun --- or perhaps even play for real money! The era of thinking you have to have at least 10 years of playing before you reach puberty in order to be any good, is flat out finished.

Think about this:
Teleconference Jams - we have the tech now, it is just a matter of buying some software, a videocam, a few speakers and monitors and a fairly fast CPU. Think about that as you sit on your Wyoming ranch wishing you could find someone ANYONE! to play with. How would you like to jam with a guitar guy in Alice Springs, a dulcimer woman in La Paz, Two hot fiddlers in Hamburg, and a super harmonicat on Ultima Thule. Doesn't have to be old time either - always wanted to put together a New Orleans jazz band but you live in Micronesia? Love swing but you can't leave your livestock alone long enough to travel to your band's rehearsals? Think jamming is the greatest part of your day and want to get some in Every day?

I even think it could work in space. Yes there will be a time delay as you get further from Earth, but you won't be moving so fast that the time delay will significantly change over the course of one tune. You can also do extemporaneous variations and then "catch" the "answering variation" several minutes later.

A dedicated musician might never choose to play solo again.

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

Banjolution - Posted - 08/11/2009:  14:58:23

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Wow! Thats why I love RSB Tony,you have VISION,and imagination,and a great sense of humor. Keep up the good work inspiring us youngsters on to new frontiers!!

Take care,and Have fun Pickin!!!
Moss

Joe Newberry - Posted - 08/13/2009:  17:22:56

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Be careful of what you wish for with the cluck... once you get it in your playing, you may find it taking over like kudzu took over the south. I worked and worked to get it, and then worked twice as long to be able to use it only when I wanted it.

www.myspace.com/joenewberry

jasper - Posted - 08/13/2009:  23:37:27

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Ain't that the truth Joe. Control is the Key.

Relax,grab your Banjo, have a Homebrew.