philip4229 - Posted - 07/02/2009:  06:35:24

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How do some of you feel about prohibiting/not prohibiting alcohol at festivals?

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mtnpckr - Posted - 07/02/2009:  06:39:54

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Hardcore drinkers ( the ones who usually cause troubles) are not going to worry about obeying 'rules", so why infringe on the rights of law abiding people, who might avoid an alcohol -free festival.

And no I'm not a drinker, nor a tee totaler.

"Never take yourself seriously, others are always ready to do it for you"

cockneybanjo - Posted - 07/02/2009:  06:44:54

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I would have thought that prohibiting alcohol was something the US had enough experience of, not to repeat?

harold saxton - Posted - 07/02/2009:  06:46:55

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I think alcohol should be prohibited. Try going to a festival over a 2 or 3 day weekend and for some reason they miss pumping out the sanicans for one day. It's not very pleasant. I've seen it happen.

KYSLOWFINGERS - Posted - 07/02/2009:  06:54:44

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I've been to both, and I hate to say this, but I think a few drinks seems to loosen the crowd up a bit and the musicians feed off of this. Most performers would much rather have a crowd clapping, singing along, really enjoying the music as opposed to sitting there like they were at the opera. Drunkeness, cursing, bothering others, etc. should not be tolerated though. I guess there's a fine line there. All that being said, I've never been to an "acohol free" event, that everyone who wanted to drink wasn't drinking anyway, one way or another. I've told people in the past, how many alcohol free places have karoke. I'm sure there is a few but a drink or two does loosen most people up.

I''m always pickin'' on my banjo, but it always beats me up.

mtnpckr - Posted - 07/02/2009:  07:03:29

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Harold, your scenario does not demonstrate a problem of alcohol usage, or prohibition of same, since people drink fluids at outdoor events. Your problem is with lax festival management and/or "so-called" professionals who provided the sanicans, presumably neither of which were caused by alcohol consumption!

"Never take yourself seriously, others are always ready to do it for you"

fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 07/02/2009:  07:06:28

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I probably drank three beers over the course of the three days that I camped at the Indiana Fiddlers Gathering, held last weekend, and they tasted great. I saw no one abuse the situation. Like many things in life, moderation is the key.

Dean

"Each one''s got to have his own style. It''s all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen

beegee - Posted - 07/02/2009:  07:13:09

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At the last festival I went to, Bass Mountain, back in the 80's, I was playing my HD 28 at a campfire jam. A drunk guy wearing one of those crocheted hats made from Budweiser canscame up to me, holding a can of Budweiser in his right hand. He put his right arm around my neck and slobbered "Hey, play Rocky Top for me" as the beer poured down my right arm all over my guitar into the sound hole.

Do I think they should prohibit alcohol consumption....? I said I'd never attend another Bluegrass festival and to this point, 20-some years later, I haven't.

__________________________
"It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing." -Seneca

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Edited by - beegee on 07/02/2009 07:14:03

cockneybanjo - Posted - 07/02/2009:  07:36:37

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wouldn't it be safer and indeed, in much better taste, to ban crocheted hats made from beer cans? It may be just me British reserve but if someone came over to me dressed like that, you wouldn't see me for dust....

mrbook - Posted - 07/02/2009:  08:07:23

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People I hang out with at festivals aren't the big drinkers they once were, mainly because they all grew up and learned better. After I finished playig at a recent festival someone offered me a beer, and it sure was good. It was the only one I had. I haven't been to any really big festivals in years, and things probably get out of hand - but I've seen alcohol at some events where it was banned. I really hate being searched when I go to a big concert (I'm just too old for that), and I would hate to see it at festivals.

Bill

RB100 - Posted - 07/02/2009:  08:16:08

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I don't use alcohol - personal choice, however, I am tolerant of others' right to do so... I think most festivals have a reasonable policy - none in the performing area. If you abuse in the camping/parking areas, etc. you are subject to the same rules as anywhere else.

Most - or at least many - of my best friends use alcohol in moderation. They don't abuse and I see no problems, However, I should also mention that my dad - who passed away early this year at 93 - only in the last 3-4 years related to me that my grandfather (his dad) died from drinking poison 'shine - at 56. My dad was a very strict tee-totaler...

What's my point? Everything in moderation...

I should say that my view toward songs glorifying 'shine and the life style of shiners as portrayed in many bluegrass songs has a different message for me now that back years ago.

Bill

"I''ve been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
http://bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

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Edited by - RB100 on 07/02/2009 08:18:20

f#dead - Posted - 07/02/2009:  08:22:02

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Moderation and good policing by management. Beer gardens?
Instead of wrist bands for beer patrons, require the drinking public to wear the crocheted hats. That would "mark" them and easier to avoid. They would also have a great souvenir for the trophy room at home. "Yup, got that'n at the White Trash Grass Fest back in ought 9"

I''m not a musician. I play the banjo!

chaosfrailer - Posted - 07/02/2009:  08:34:07

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I feel that drinking at festivals is fine as long as you're not disrespectful to anyone. I personally love camping in a field for two days, getting a little too drunk, and having a blast with my friends.

Take care, but take it!-Harold Hausenfluck

musekatcher - Posted - 07/02/2009:  08:52:42

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quote:

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Originally posted by beegee

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Mug Root Beer - "The Foam Goes Straight To Your Brain!"

I might enjoy a jovial character like this, from a distance. And as for Rocky Top requests? I'll take em. Be warned, my Rocky Top sounds a lot like Black Eyed Suzie...

Jim Holland
Athens, AL

bobjo - Posted - 07/02/2009:  09:35:32

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I attended a festival (which will remain nameless) with an old friend (who will also remain nameless). He set up his tent, stretched and bellowed out: "Who loves folk music!"

He headed down to the concession stands, cozied up to a counter and asked for "One pint please". He was informed "Sorry sir, this is a dry event".

He howled: "Who hates folk music!"

So my wife and I, whenever an event is dry, say to each other "Who hates folk music!" Kind of our inside joke.



More seriously, there's another festival that I've decided to avoid because of the rampant sloppy drunk insanity. One example: The main stage area gets packed, so when you pick a spot you're stuck in the spot. Unfortunatly, my neighbor in front was a smelly drunken sunburned man doing a sideways dance and barking at the stage what sounded like "TIM-MAY!" (from SouthPark). He kept this up for three hours.

So now when we see someone soused at a festival my wife and I will say to each other "TIM-MAY!"


On the other side of the coin is a small, dry festival I attended recently. The crowd was sober. Too sober. The polite applause seemed painful and crowd looked like it was going to sleep. We wound up making trips to our car to fill up our lemonade cups with beer. I don't think I'd go back there because it was too... Dry and sober!



My rule of thumb: large festivals I prefer dry, smaller festivals I prefer wet.

b

Glenn Tate - Posted - 07/02/2009:  09:58:11

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There is a law against public intoxication. However, I think the issue here should not only be alcohol, but anything that violates the rights of others. We have heard big motor homes and busses running there generators all night long in the camping area. I have seen unsafe driving of autos, trucks, motorcycles, and 4-wheelers, through the campgrounds where children are running and playing. These issues should be reported to the promoters, and should be handled quicklly.

You have a right to swing your arms, but your right ends at my nose. It is also your right to not attend gatherings where things go on that you do not agree with, and you should make the promoters aware of the reason you are leaving and will not be back.

"Opportunities are never lost. Someone will pick up the ones you miss!"
"Your never lost, if you don''t care where you are."

Glenn

10gauge - Posted - 07/02/2009:  10:41:59

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I remember watching the adults back in the 70s drink and back then a drunk would get out of hand and the very fact that he was drunk was his sheild against most legal and some social consequences. Now when someone gets drunk and out of hand they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Additionally, people are not socially tolerant of obnoxious drunks at all anymore. I talked with my Grandmother on the phone, who said she had gone to a family re-union. She said when I asked her if there was any drinking, that there was no alcohol at the reunion. Thirty years ago that would have been unheard of. Good or bad the temperance movement is again gaining momentum, but rather than a religeous phenomenum, I think this stems from the anti-drunk driving campaign. It doesn't hurt my fellings when alcohol isn't permitted, but then America's movement towards safety by sacrificing freedom kind of ticks me off. Don't get me wrong I don't want to have to deal with Tim-may guys or drunk drivers, but lately I feel like base jumping in protest of the safety over load.

Jonathan O''bug

mtnpckr - Posted - 07/02/2009:  13:17:09

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Not to pick any arguments, but i was an adult "social" drinker back in the 70's, and I assure you there were plenty of legal consequences to a drinkers actions and more than a few social ones as well, 10guage.
Your profile shows your age at 37 which would make it remarkable that you would have definite memories of most of the 70's years. Maybe you are recalling the 80's?
Prohibition was tried for a very long time in the US and failed miserably, even leading to the growth and power of organized crime, which then had the funds to jump into the even more lucrative drug trade.
Do we really want to go there??

"Never take yourself seriously, others are always ready to do it for you"

10gauge - Posted - 07/02/2009:  14:33:21

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I can see where I was unclear in my writing. I know it not what I said, but what I meant includes the additions in bold.

It doesn't hurt my fellings when alcohol isn't permitted at fesivals or concerts, but then America's cultural movement towards safety by sacrificing freedom kind of ticks me off.

I was quite young in the 70s so I asked a guy here who sits next to me. He says that he was cruising around one night in the 70s with a bunch of friends all drunk including the driver with beer in the car in Long Island when theywere stopped by the police. They were ordered to end their night go home. Somehow, I don't think that it would go that way if the same carful of teenagers were pulled over today.


Jonathan O''bug

thumpic2003 - Posted - 07/02/2009:  14:51:17

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I was charged with some very serious charges at the Galax fiddlers convention in 2007 because of drinking law enforcement officers from Roanoke. A lot of the hangout members knows about this. I worried about this for nearly two years, but just last month i was found not guilty on all charges by a jury. I don't have anything against drinking. i have a lot of friends that do. i don't drink. Anyway these people lied to the Galax police and it cost me a bunch of money. It could have put me in prison for 20 years. NOW ITS MY TIME!!!!

N.E.banjo - Posted - 07/02/2009:  16:07:54

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I'm old enough to remember (at driving age) when drunk driving hadn't become a "big deal" yet.

Of course it was just as dangerous, but it hadn't become a major "campaign".

A cop would pull someone over for a missing tail light, deal with that issue, and upon seeing the driver was too drunk to walk, let alone drive, would say, "can you get home or do you need a ride? Be careful now. Have a good night."

That kind of changed.

Dan

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Edited by - N.E.banjo on 07/02/2009 16:10:02

1four5 - Posted - 07/02/2009:  17:02:21

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Don't allow it to be brought in, but sell it for $10 a beer like they do at football games.

Dean

fixdent - Posted - 07/02/2009:  20:33:20

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Any festivals that I have been to, I'm amazed at the amount of "non-drinking" going on. There are no beer tents, and no outright display of alcohol in the stage area.

Try going to a Country festival, and that's all there is....beer tents and drunk teenagers.

--
Gordon

lazlo191 - Posted - 07/03/2009:  03:23:25

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A ban on alcohol is enough to make me not want to attend an event. I dislike drunken behavior as much as the next guy, but outright bans turn me off, too. Lots of great jams happen with a flask or a few beers present, and a lot are ruined by the same. It's life with other humans, Les

derekanjo - Posted - 07/03/2009:  12:25:25

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When it comes to running a large event, liability is an issue. If someone gets drunk (not everyone has the mental fortitude and sensibility that you all have) gets in their vehicle and runs over a small child walking back to the family camper after a stage show, there is a lawsuit. When a small amount of festival staff is watching over a large amount of people, there has to be a kindergarten approach. One bad apple, unfortunately, can have the effect of ruining it for everyone. The prime concern is the safety of festival goers, not your want to have a beer while picking.

Derek

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 07/03/2009:  13:11:04

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Non alcoholic, family type venues all the way.. If a person wants to drink and all that follows thats their business... But call it what it is... Not jams, festivals or Bluegrass... Its just drinking! A good analogy is that the drunk drivers have never had more than two beers...

KL

harold saxton - Posted - 07/04/2009:  07:23:58

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Amen Kenneth. I'm with you.

pipefitter61 - Posted - 07/05/2009:  18:27:26

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I've seen about all of them! From the california festivals, where just about anything goes. Winfield, where there's the "area no-one talks about", and bean blossom, where a certain part of the woods is where the party animals hang out. I've also seen, and incidentally was raised near the "bible belt" bluegrass festivals. Strict, and I do mean STRICT rules against the consumption of alcoholic beverages were posted at the front gates. If you were caught with it, and in some cases even convicted by the odor of alcohol on your breath, they would have no trouble in helping you out by the shirt collar if you wanted it that way! I, like rb100 choose to be a "non-participant" in the drinking end of picking. However, if someone wants to have a beer, some wine, or other cocktail. I would have no problem with it. In beegees case, the guy who spilled beer in MY d-28 would still be looking for his teeth, blowing around like chicklets in the parking lot! I have NO tolerance for DRUNKS! Period!

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Edited by - pipefitter61 on 07/05/2009 18:29:08

Flying Eagle - Posted - 07/05/2009:  21:15:59

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This is a hard topic. On the one hand, it would hardly seem like a festival around here if you didn't see someone passing around a mason jar full of clear liquid somewhere in the parking/camping area. On the other hand, large quantities of said liquid do nothing to improve anyone's music (or anything else). So, as others have said, give people the freedom to be adults with plenty of swift recourse in the event of abuse.



"Old soldiers and old sailors have a place to go,
but no one helps a railroad bum like poor old Hobo Joe".

madkelt2004 - Posted - 07/06/2009:  05:14:59

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Any trouble I ever got into was alcohol-fueled. I don't drink any more as I've learned I'm allergic to the stuff: When I drank I used to break out in handcuffs, car wrecks and fistfights.
I'm not the morality police either. I understand that "normal" poeple can enhance an occassion with a few drinks without losing control. God bless 'em.
I'd lay odds that festival organizers are aware that drinking is going on whether they "ban" alcohol at their festival or not. Just as there are draconian laws against marijuana, but I can smell 'em tuning up more than just their instruments back there in the trees.
But by having a ban on alcohol they are protecting themselves from a certain amount of liability as well as giving themselves leverage in expelling the unruly types. As well they should. Troublemakers should be dealt with swiftly and severely. A vigorous pummeling before being tossed out of the venue, or even arrested, might help them curb their abberrent behavior the next time.

TopCat - Posted - 07/06/2009:  05:19:11

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I have to say that the idea of "dry" festivals does seem very odd indeed from a British perspective. At our bluegrass festivals (mostly smaller than in the US, granted, but still anything from a few hundred to a couple of thousand attendees) it would be unthinkable for there not to be a bar, or for people not to be allowed to bring a few beers with them for campsite picking.

I appreciate that this country (the UK) has a very weird relationship with alcohol in some respects (check out the blind drunk young 'uns in any city centre on a Saturday night) compared to mainland Europe, but I can't envisage any major problems at a civilised event like a bluegrass festival.....evidently the US has an even more complex relationship with alcohol than we do! Actually I really noticed this again on my recent visit to Alabama and Georgia and there definitely seems to be a more prevalent view that it's the root of all evil (which is fair enough I guess). Personally I have no problem not drinking for an extended period of time if those are the rules, but I do like a cold beer at the end of the day at a festival.

Our home-grown bluegrass camp, Sore Fingers, which attracts the most talented BG and OT players as tutors, is also typically British in having its own bar (in a boarding school!!) which everyone repairs to every night to jam until very, very late.

philip4229 - Posted - 07/06/2009:  05:58:48

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TopCat, it has always seemed to me that the U.S. seems to have a pretty rough past with alcohol. If you compare alcohol consumption in the US to the UK, it seems the the US holds a very abusive reputation with alcohol. There is argument on whether or not it is related to having such strict laws, but I tend think that it has to do with poverty and oppression, and genealogy. I come from some pretty strong native American bloodline, and alcoholism runs strong in my family...so I have to keep a constant watch on myself.

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Wykowski - Posted - 07/08/2009:  12:29:10

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That's one the reasons I quit going to Bluegrass festivals as a spectator, I have to sneak in beer, and i'm getting to old to sneak or give a darn about silly rules.

My Band plays alot of micro-brew Beer Festivals, alot of Bluegrass bands have found a second home at these events, they are alot of fun, and the crowds are well behaved.

JIMBO53 - Posted - 07/08/2009:  17:08:46

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I remember the Union Grove NC festivals of the 70's put on by Pierce Van Hoy that were out of control drunk and disorderly events that coincidentally featured bluegrass music. The stage under the big tent was enclosed in chicken wire to protect the band from flying bottles. The Hell's Angels were usually in attendance and I saw them tie a rope around a PortaJohn with some hapless fella inside, tie the other end to a Harley and drag it down the road on its side. The campsite next to mine was selling gallon milk jugs of moonshine out of the trunk of their car. Held on Easter weekend, it was eventually shut down as a public nusence. Pierce's brother Harper, ran another festival,a mile or so away, held on Memorial Day and a Square Dance event over Labor Day, both of which were alchohol free and family friendly. It still goes on to this day and is a wonderful music event in it's 85th year. When I went to Pierce's festival as a USC college boy, I'd bring my banjo and 5 cases of beer. Now I go to Harper's festival as a middle aged man with grown children and bring my banjo and 5 gallons on Bojangle's sweet tea. Times change and the drinks change, but the banjo still comes with me, and, oh, what stories it can tell!

"Life Has Been Easier On Me Than Any Lazy Person Like Myself Has The Right To Expect"-Pete Seeger

banjerman - Posted - 07/08/2009:  17:53:14

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Im old enough to remember the bad old days when not just alcohol but drug use ruined a number of my good times at fests in which I had paid my hard earned cash to enter therein. These abusers were much differant than the normal fest goers when it came to having a beer or two. It was primarily a stoner/booze fest for many of them.
That being said I have never seen responsible adult act badly with a few beers in them. One thing that is not talked about much is the amount of alcohol consumed by the bands behind the stage or in the camper. People drink to relax and open up some. Drunks and stoners are another matter altogether in my book.
Wally

bones - Posted - 07/09/2009:  17:39:10

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if people want to drink in the motorhome area, tent camping area, as long as no laws are broken what difference does it make ? as for me and my house no alcohol. i recently was at a no drinking festival and the smell of pot wafted through the air and even onstage. i'd rather them be drinking away from the picking areas than having second hand pot smoke to deal with. people are going to find a way to do whatever it is they want to do. public safety, and sanctity of the music arenas should be first and foremost. personal gratification of a different sort should be left up to those who embibe for liesure in private areas --not public.

For Fun and Frolic the One and Only "Mr. Bones" and his trusty 5 string Banjo !

spring5497 - Posted - 07/30/2009:  07:08:57

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I was just at a festival (to remain nameless) with my wife and two young children, and there was an abundence of drunks. The staff wasn't willing to maintain control over some in the crowd. I don't drink anymore, and don't have a problem with people drinking, but I really don't care to take my kids to an event where people are acting like this. But, on a different note, at the same event there was an abundence of marijuana smoking, which I don't condone ( I am a federal agent), and the staff said it was tolerated. I will not be back to this festival

philip4229 - Posted - 07/30/2009:  07:52:00

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You should have radioed in the convoy.

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jimbo78 - Posted - 07/30/2009:  07:55:44

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Come on spring5497.....tell us where that festival is at?

JimBo

edsnyder - Posted - 07/30/2009:  08:41:59

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Hmmmmm.....Did I see anyone smoking last week?........Can't seem to remember........

I am a drinker, and enjoy a couple of beers at a festival, or even a dram of whiskey now and then. It seems to relax me while playing, to a point, then one more and I can't play at all. Even though I enjoy a drink, I do not like drunks. Smokers? Probably the least likely people to cause any kind of a problem. However I realize others may not like it. Each to our own likes and dislikes.

The festival I was at had both, and was a good festival.

Ed e

You''re only young once, but you can be immature forever!

bilge rat - Posted - 07/30/2009:  09:24:27

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Nobody enjoys good brew more than me...(I keep 6 beers on tap at home always) but ironically, I never drink while playing. Not even at home. I KNOW my hand-eye coordination goes out the window after even one decent beer....and I struggle as a player anyhoo. So why cripple myself even more?

In a liquid pinch.....I have streched one beer out over a couple hour jam session..but just to wet my throat.

I could give a Bilge Rat's butt if other people drink, though. Drink up...I'll make more! Unless they are drunken, obnoxiuos and bother me. Then I leave. But that hardly ever happens. I guess I am living the slow life:)

And I would much rather be in a bar/festival where folks were drinking...than in one filled with Pall Mall smoke.

edsnyder - Posted - 07/30/2009:  09:35:14

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I had some good Homebrew at the festival last week, during our late night jam. Love a good homebrew. Bilge Rat, bring some over tonight! The Nasal Ridge Pickers are jamming at my house!

Ed e

You''re only young once, but you can be immature forever!

scruggsfan - Posted - 07/30/2009:  09:56:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by spring5497

I was just at a festival (to remain nameless) with my wife and two young children, and there was an abundence of drunks. The staff wasn't willing to maintain control over some in the crowd. I don't drink anymore, and don't have a problem with people drinking, but I really don't care to take my kids to an event where people are acting like this. But, on a different note, at the same event there was an abundence of marijuana smoking, which I don't condone ( I am a federal agent), and the staff said it was tolerated. I will not be back to this festival

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This sounds a lot like Grey Fox . I loved it when it was Winterhawk, but it was just myself and some buddies then. I went back with my kids and was (understatement here) unhappy with drunk guys putting out their cigarette butts in my chair's drink holder, second hand whatever wafting around, and complete disregard of the no-smoking "policy" in the concert area. My daughter has asthma, and I had to complain several times before an announcement was made. I think it's a good festival with an unbeatable lineup, but that experience was less than great. I prefer Gettysburg, at least until my kids are older!

Ilana

spring5497 - Posted - 07/31/2009:  07:33:40

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[quote]Originally posted by jimbo78

Come on spring5497.....tell us where that festival is at?

JimBo



It was Greyfox. The music was great, but I will never return with my family.

jakeyvimto - Posted - 07/31/2009:  08:12:49

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The thing that cinches it for me is the obnoxious drunk people that ive met at festivals dont look like they would be any less obnoxious sober, so why spoil the fun for the responsible people who like a drink?



I aint goodlooking, dont let that deceive you, I''m somebodys natural angelchild