benbonewilly - Posted - 07/02/2009:  09:09:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by RG

I hear that the bum-titty method produces a well rounded sound...but that's just what I've heard...

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Bun-titty is just and excuse to say the word "titty". That's what I think.

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Truth is not relative. It is absolute.

chip arnold - Posted - 07/02/2009:  09:10:33

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or bum.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

RJFreeman - Posted - 07/02/2009:  09:10:47

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Bum Ditty War Blues

Met a man coming down the road
I had a banjo on my knee
He asked me if I would play him a tune
So I gave him a round of Cindy
He said you can't play like that
that ain't old time, you see

Think I'll take my old banjo
Go up Piney Creek
Play a little tune just the way I want
and wait till the end of the week
banjo brothers being shot to death
in the banjo civil war this week

NeilTurner - Posted - 07/02/2009:  09:46:07

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quote:

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Bum Ditty War Blues

Met a man coming down the road
I had a banjo on my knee
He asked me if I would play him a tune
So I gave him a round of Cindy
He said you can't play like that
that ain't old time, you see

Think I'll take my old banjo
Go up Piney Creek
Play a little tune just the way I want
and wait till the end of the week
banjo brothers being shot to death
in the banjo civil war this week

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That's great.

--------------------------------------------------------------

We thought about it for a long time, "Endeavor to persevere." And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union. - Lone Watie

RPM - Posted - 07/02/2009:  11:51:00

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I’m not qualified to get into the discussions about what players played what way, North versus South, who's naughty and who's nice, and all that.
But Woodchuck was originally talking about basic technique. In that, I think it’s hard to disagree with him.

The motion he described in his second post is what defines downstroke banjo. (Leaving aside the air thumb issue) " The hand drops to make the frail and the thumb stops the downward motion by catching on the 5th (or other) string. Once the thumb has caught it snaps forward (down) but since there is an immovable mass in the way (a String) the thumb's forward energy actually makes it fly back upward (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction)."

It doesn’t matter what context you learn that motion in. A separate stroke; part of bum di dy or di dy bum or bump a tit ty ( I think I’m going to have a bumper stickers made with that one); Round Peak, Seeger style, minstrel style.
Whatever. If you can’t fire that thumb as part of the downstroke, you can’t play any of them.

I was a guitar teacher for a long time, but my teaching experience with banjo consists only of trying to help my bandmate, an excellent guitarist and mandolin player, get the hang of clawhammer.
This guy is a very good musician – he was a Christopher Parkening master student and he’s played as a symphony guest artist on both guitar and mandolin.

If I told him that the basic motion was “quarter-note single note, eighth-note brush, eighth note on the fifth string,” he could play with any number of techniques – this guy could probably do it at a reasonable pace with a flatpick behind his head. But it sure wouldn't sound like clawhammer.

What makes it downstroke banjo is the technique OWCB described. (I finally had to loan my friend a banjo and Dan’s book and refer him to David Holt’s You Tube instruction. I couldn’t get him past separate thumb and finger plucking.)

Bum di dy obviously is a very important rhythm in these styles, particularly in old time music. You can certainly build accompaniments and solo arrangements around it. But as someone once said, it's not the water, it's only the wave.

It's one of an endless number of rhythms available to you once you get the downstroke … down.

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Edited by - RPM on 07/02/2009 13:06:25

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/02/2009:  16:48:04

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RPM
I think you are now going to find out exactly how easy it is to disagree with me.




If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

benbonewilly - Posted - 07/03/2009:  16:02:21

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

RPM
I think you are now going to find out exactly how easy it is to disagree with me.




If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

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Tony, I disagree. It's hard to disagree wif you, hoss.

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Truth is not relative. It is absolute.

BrittDLD1 - Posted - 07/05/2009:  20:40:43

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Ran across this recording of Burnett and Rutherford, doing
"Ladies on Steamboat":

http://juneberry78s.com/otmsampler/...teamboat.mp3

This is a good example of an OBVIOUS old time "Bump-a-Dit-ty"
(or "Buck-a-Buck-a") banjo rhythm.

To paraphrase our elder-statesman, Mr. James Sutton:
. . . "If you can't hear THAT -- you can't hear NOTHIN'!"

Best-
Ed Britt

••• A good fiddle tune will bring two or more people together who might otherwise be enemies. •••

Bagpussfrog - Posted - 07/06/2009:  05:06:00

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not being at all qualified to get into this argument, I find myself looking from the perspecive of someone who has recently learned the basic moves in clawhammer banjo, and I guess it's moved me to put my ill informed two penneth in.

I'm a student not a teacher and the one thing that I NEEDED to learn, to get the hang of clawhammer was the bum-dit-ty - a DOWN stroke note followed by a brush down and then a thumb pluck on the 5th, No matter where you go from there - you need to get this down, practice it until you have it, and then choose how you take that forward in your own style. I have noticed that bum-di-ty doesn't really figure too much in the stuff i'm interested in, but there is a heck of a lot of 'Bum' notes (pardon the pun!!) so I'm glad I took the time to learn it and get it down!

The beauty of old time music, is that you could get 10 banjo players together and ask them to play the same tune, they would all use slightly different techniques, because the stlye is scattergun, handed down over generations all over the USA and really has very little to do with technique and EVERYTHING to do with passing on songs, words and music.

That's folk music. so why sweat it. Teachers will always have a zealot like approach to their particular method, and defend it to the hilt - and good luck to them, but the music will out, not the technique.

_________________________________________________________________________
When you want genuine music - music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whiskey, go right through you like Brandreth''s pills, ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pinfeather pimples on a picked goose - when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!

Mark Twain

nate_f - Posted - 07/06/2009:  08:26:30

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quote:

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not being at all qualified to get into this argument, I find myself looking from the perspecive of someone who has recently learned the basic moves in clawhammer banjo, and I guess it's moved me to put my ill informed two penneth in.

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And here are my two penneth as a long time lurker and first time poster. Interesting that it seems we had the opposite experience. :)

I’ve really enjoyed this lively discussion, and I think much of what is being discussed are teaching methods. While two people can achieve similar results on an instrument with vastly different learning approaches, there ARE simply methods that work better. Hanon’s piano exercises have been used continually since there publication in the 1870’s – there are plenty of other methods, but none that have shown to consistently achieve the best results quickly among the widest group of people. Same reason Bach’s Inventions and Sinfonias have been used to teach counterpoint for the past 300 years.

I picked up the banjo about 6 months ago, after years of piano, classical and blues guitar, bass, and a conservatory degree in composition. I discovered some of Patrick Costello’s introductory videos on youtube, and got the bum-ditty down in about a day. While I found that I could accompany myself to just about anything (well, the rhythm is forced in a lot of contexts, to be honest) and coax out some old time melodies, it didn’t at all resemble the old time music that had attracted me to the instrument in the first place.
I found the hangout, downloaded RSB, and got myself a copy of Dan Levenson’s Clawhammer from Scratch. Now this stuff made a great deal more sense to me. It was clear that these methods were developed by folks who not only had years of teaching experience under their belts, but also a solid knowledge of old time music and theory. Sure, it’s not a pitch-class set analysis of Schoenberg’s String Trio, because it doesn’t have to be. But for starters, at least, they understand the difference between a rhythm and a stroke. Everything is laid out clearly and methodically, and within a month or two I was playing moderately competently. At this point, I can’t put the thing down, and I’ve been lucky enough to play frequently with much more accomplished traditional musicians and have enjoyed every minute.

If one starts with the bum-ditty, it seems to me that it would be a lot more difficult to incorporate drop thumbing later (if one didn’t bore oneself to death and abandon the instrument before that point). Why not incorporate it from the outset? Learn double thumbing, the frailing stroke, drop thumbing, and you can play ANY rhythm, bum-ditty included. Why limit yourself?

On the other hand, if you want to sound like Patrick Costello and enjoy it, more power to you. He’s obviously made a very successful business out of what he does, and if folks are enjoying it, that’s fantastic. If you’re goal is to even approximate someone like Wade Ward, however, you’ll quickly find that another approach is necessary.

(And I really don’t understand how Ward can be described as a bum-ditty player. As Dan said, listen to the first bars of June Apple – ain’t no bum ditty there. Sure, he uses the rhythm, but so does everyone at some point or another. Unless we’re defining our terms in vastly different ways, people like Grandpa Jones or Stoneman, who uses the bum-ditty as the foundation of their playing, are “bum-ditty players.” Wade Ward? That sounds as ridiculous to my ears as the claim that the bum-ditty is necessary for a galloping or loping rhythm. Listen to some Tuvan and Mongolian music (talk about horse-based cultures!) – plenty of gallop, but ain’t no bum ditty. 2nd movement of Shostakovich’s 8th symphony, “gallop”- hell of a gallop there, ain’t no bum ditty either.)

Sorry, that’s probably a bit more than two cents :) My heartfelt thanks to OWC, Dan Levenson, and others for making their materials available and for all their dedication and contributions to the hangout. Thanks as well as well for everyone here for the lively discussions and wealth of ideas and information – it has all been invaluable to me as I’ve started out on the banjo. To those who see the bum-ditty as the foundation and/or starting point for all banjo playing, that didn’t work for me, but if it works for you, great – keep on making music and enjoying it! It’s been great for me to learn from both sides in this discussion.


"The first question I ask myself when something doesn''t seem to be beautiful is why do I think it''s not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason." --John Cage

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 07/06/2009:  08:34:44

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Nate:

That's some first post - you nailed a lot of things right in what you wrote.

I will look forward to your future contributions on the Banjo Hangout.

********************************************************************''
The YOUTUBE videos of the Really Big Banjo Show
are now available (23 of them) for your viewing and
listening pleasure. Check them out. Go to YOUTUBE and
look for "banjojudy" and you''ll see the files. I made a
playlist for the show, but I am not sure if you can access
it. ENJOY and be sure to rate the videos and leave comments.
*********************************************************************

nate_f - Posted - 07/06/2009:  08:48:23

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Thanks, Judy!

"The first question I ask myself when something doesn''t seem to be beautiful is why do I think it''s not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason." --John Cage

banjoholic - Posted - 07/06/2009:  11:54:39

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I'd thought about entering this discussion several times as it has unfolded, but refrained because of how contentious it had become. Fortunately, Nate stepped in and said everything I would've said about as perfectly as it could be stated!

Though, understandably, he failed to address the ironclad "my site is more popular than your site!" argument for methodological superiority that has been proferred in this thread. It would undoubtedly require an analytical feat of Aristotlean proportion to dismantle that one.

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Edited by - banjoholic on 07/06/2009 12:06:26

Coonskin - Posted - 07/12/2009:  15:24:53

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There are lots of ways to do it; different fingers, different patterns, all pointing to a similar part of the musical world. That's the great thing about oldtime music; it's yours to own and belong to. A little ingenuity and self-reliance go a long way when it comes to finding what your ear wants to do; it's like picking up little pieces of gold until you have enough to hold onto, then melting them yourself and making of it what you will.

No one can tell you how that is(they can just say it and you take what you like); you just gotta walk and start picking.

WWW.MYSPACE.COM/BANJOKEL

Relax, folks, it''s only banjo...it ain''t rocket surgery! ;:^)>

witty banjo related username - Posted - 07/12/2009:  17:26:18

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"it's like picking up little pieces of gold until you have enough to hold onto, then melting them yourself and making of it what you will."
- Coonskin

Aww. It's warm and fuzzy, like compost- in the nicest way possible, of course; and, for me, the whole point for doing anything,save eating and sleeping.

"Frivolity is a stern taskmaster." - Zippy the Pinhead

Coonskin - Posted - 07/13/2009:  17:35:48

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I'm getting fuzzier every day...gotta grow that big old beard back, as winter approacheth, and for Seattle weather, I'm feeling pretty warm today, too!


WWW.MYSPACE.COM/BANJOKEL

Relax, folks, it''s only banjo...it ain''t rocket surgery! ;:^)>

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/16/2009:  00:47:28

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I gotta admit, this is about the last place I expected to read a quote from John Cage. Watching him on the Ed Sullivan show many decades ago taught me a lot about the definition of "music". Even my grandmother who "harump poppycocked" all through anything that wasn't a crooner or a swing band, admitted Cage's performance was kinda interesting. This was the same woman who said (while watching Andres Segovia playing the Rodrigues Guitar Concerto known to many as Orangade) "Why doesn't he stop that f@rting around and play us a tune. That was the very night I decided to take up classical guitar.


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

slabounty - Posted - 07/16/2009:  08:29:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

I gotta admit, this is about the last place I expected to read a quote from John Cage. Watching him on the Ed Sullivan show many decades ago taught me a lot about the definition of "music". Even my grandmother who "harump poppycocked" all through anything that wasn't a crooner or a swing band, admitted Cage's performance was kinda interesting. This was the same woman who said (while watching Andres Segovia playing the Rodrigues Guitar Concerto known to many as Orangade) "Why doesn't he stop that f@rting around and play us a tune. That was the very night I decided to take up classical guitar.


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

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OK, this is veering wildly off track, but John Cage was on Ed Sullivan?!!? That is one of the weirdest things that I can think of.


Scott LaBounty
Orange, CA

nate_f - Posted - 07/16/2009:  10:59:35

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quote:

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This was the same woman who said (while watching Andres Segovia playing the Rodrigues Guitar Concerto known to many as Orangade) "Why doesn't he stop that f@rting around and play us a tune. That was the very night I decided to take up classical guitar.

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Haha, great story!

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/16/2009:  15:01:46

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Ed Sullivan frequently had people well outside the mainstream on his show. Cage was on several times over the years and always seemed to be enjoyed by the audience. Steve Allen also had a show at the same time as Sullivan (9PM Sunday) and he tended more toward the jazz side of things. So it was from Stevarino that I learned about Miles and Coltrane, etc.


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

nate_f - Posted - 07/16/2009:  15:11:21

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Man, if they had anything like that on network TV these days, I might consider getting one.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/18/2009:  03:39:00

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They don't even have anything like that on public TV today. Controversey might lose them a sponsor,


If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer tunes at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Looking for a tab? Ask The Woodchuck - If I''ve got it or will do it - you can get it for a buck.
Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

Don Borchelt - Posted - 07/18/2009:  04:09:22

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Well, I don't have a horse in this race. But now, the other night Ed Britt and I were picking Ragtime Annie, and he had this bump-a-chug-a, bump-a-chug-a thing going on the A part which to me is the essense of old time clawhammer.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don''t like to play it like he did. I try to play it the way I play it" - fiddler Lester McCumbers, interviewed by Erynn Marshall
Check out my webpage.

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Edited by - Don Borchelt on 07/18/2009 04:09:57

Voyageur - Posted - 07/19/2009:  23:48:59

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quote:

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Originally posted by Don Borchelt

Well, I don't have a horse in this race. But now, the other night Ed Britt and I were picking Ragtime Annie, and he had this bump-a-chug-a, bump-a-chug-a thing going on the A part which to me is the essense of old time clawhammer.

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Well, that's fine as long as it was "bump-a-chug-a" and NOT "bum-a-ditty." World of difference between those two

"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray to be stronger. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks."
- Fr. Solanus Casey

banjopogo - Posted - 07/20/2009:  22:41:10

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On one hand, I learned bump-ditty at the beginning, and it didn't seem to hurt me none-
but it took three months to learn!
I also burned out on it- some people can make it sound subtle, but it can get crashy.
That's good for some things, some songs especially, but I don't like it for accompanying a fiddle.
Too much tendency to force the banjo player's rhythm on the group, rather than trying
to hang tight with the fiddler as a team player.

However, I don't get too up-tight about it- the key thing for me is if the individual player can make whatever
approach he/she is using sound musical and not mechanical.
I have a streaming "radio" station on ezfolk.com- see link below.
It includes a lot of the banjo players on ezfolk- and some are bump-ditty,
and some bumpa-ditty, but to me all of them make their style work musically.

By the way, I'm a rhythmic drop-thumb player... I don't really focus on Round Peak tunes,
so I'd feel funny calling myself a Round Peak player.

Recently, I started teaching clawhammer banjo to an adult student-
she'd already had some bluegrass instruction.
I started her on bump-ditty, since that's how I started, but she was having a hard time getting it.
Then she went to a nearby Bluegrass festival, and found Clawdan's book in one of the "shops".
I was hesitant at first, since the tab looked alien to me, but she's taking to it like a duck to water,
and her clawhammer is finally starting to sound musical.

So I'm seeing good fruit from that approach.



Michael

mp3 page: http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1088/
Also available:
Michael''s Old Time Fiddle and Banjo Hour (Hi-Fi and Lo-Fi streams)

Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/22/2009:  07:45:43

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quote:

---

Originally posted by gcc005

I'm a rare poster, and I don't know why I felt compelled to weigh in, but here it goes.

I used to say I played my banjo "Clawhammer", until someone told me I didn't drop-thumb enough to say clawhammer. Whatever. So now when people ask me how I play, I just say "depends on how many drinks I've had."

Experiences like that say one thing about the banjo community, but everyone seems to agree with "Play it however you want". It doesn't seem to make people mad when others play differently. It makes people mad when someone attaches a name to it that they don't agree with.

Point is, not a single person in existence, especially not on this forum, is qualified to say what old-time, folk, bluegrass etc. is or is not. They are a socially influenced and constantly evolving art form. No one person can know because it is a grey area as nebulous as society and history itself. Likewise, we do not decide how or what we label our playing as. Someone far in the future will label it according to a different set of standards.

Its a drum with some shiny strings on it. Play the damn thing and have another beer.

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I'll second that.

Big Doug Nez - Posted - 07/22/2009:  09:13:14

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When I first started learning the banjo I searched, and listened to as many videos and sound bytes, trying to figure out how I wanted to sound. I ran across a video of a guy who was improvising along, he played a little three finger, then switched to some two finger, up picked, down picked, clawhammered, frailed, then put his right hand in his pocket and played with just his left hand on the neck using hammer-ons and pull-offs. Now I'm not sure if he was from the north or the south, but I am sure that a person would have a hard time putting a label on his style of playing.
I guess my point is music, like many endeavors, reflects life in that it flows along like a river. Trying to stop its flow to label it "traditional" or even slow it down is a source of misery. The river will flow without you and may drown you. Try learning as much as you can and then use what you know to make a style of your own.
Go with the flow brothers and sisters.

stringbeaner - Posted - 07/22/2009:  09:21:00

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AMEN!!!!!

Stringbeaner

Banjolution - Posted - 07/22/2009:  11:51:39

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I'll second that amen BigDoug!

Take care,and Have fun Pickin!!!

banjered - Posted - 07/22/2009:  12:19:48

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Doug says,"music, like many endeavors, reflects life in that it flows along like a river."

I think Chip sort of said the same thing when he said that "traditional" is a moving target.

Hummm, moving target/river. Does that mean my banjo is under water like my house...? TC

chip arnold - Posted - 07/22/2009:  12:53:13

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it's a little known fact that Silvertone, Harmony, et al were aware of the river aspect from the beginning and that this is the very reason for the development of the bakelite banjos so popular amongst discriminating banjoists. Waterproof straight from the factory. And Tom, you may be on the cutting edge of homebuilding technology without even being aware of it. How about producing pre-fab bakelite housing for sale in flood or sunami prone areas.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/22/2009:  14:45:35

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If the whole house is bakelite how do you get any electric?

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

chip arnold - Posted - 07/22/2009:  14:54:23

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Quote: "If the whole house is bakelite how do you get any electric?"

Why copper wire of course! Copper won't rust. In fact another little known fact is that the first electrical wires were made of cast iron. It was not until rusty electricity began showing up in peoples homes that congress passed the "clean electricity" act which mandated the use of copper wire.


**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

Coonskin - Posted - 07/22/2009:  19:18:00

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I never did take an affection to rusty electrics...just never did, and haint never trying to start now.

WWW.MYSPACE.COM/BANJOKEL


You can pick your friends, you can pick your friend''s banjo, you can pick your nose, but you can''t pick your friend''s nose while picking their banjo.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/22/2009:  19:35:24

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He picked up his rifle trusty
And found it was a trifle rusty

Completely unrelated thing that popped into my head. I think it comes from a cartoon.

For unrelated, did you know that cartoon is in fact from the same root as cartouche. Artillery, and Egyptology once came together in the late 18th century - as a consequence the Sphinx has no nose, and doesn't smell good.

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

Coonskin - Posted - 07/23/2009:  10:33:43

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I have been to Egypt, and I agree that the Sphinx don't smell that good...or was that me?!?

WWW.MYSPACE.COM/BANJOKEL


You can pick your friends, you can pick your friend''s banjo, you can pick your nose, but you can''t pick your friend''s nose while picking their banjo.

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/27/2009:  15:41:36

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Add old man smell to old lion smell and you got a truly bad experience.

Speaking of old iron... the eiffel tower smells of old rust. They should have made it out of bakelite. That was the revolutionary new material available at the time.

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

roundpeakbanjos.com - Posted - 07/31/2009:  06:42:21

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

Kevin,


Please do come back and tell us how you view the banjo. How you were taught and what changes you would make to the teaching. You have the blue ribbons to prove that you are way better than the average player so talk to us about your training - I remember we had a discussion on this before and I would like to encourage you to tell others about it.



Tony, Here is a little of how I got into playing the banjo until the present. Most of this came from my web site.

I am a native of the Round Peak section of Surry County, North Carolina. I didn't start playing the banjo until I was 26 years old, but it didn't take me long to discover that playing and making banjos was my passion in life.

After trying my hand at dirt track racecar driving for a couple of years, I became ill with sinus and breathing problems due to the dust from the track and quit racing. Fortunately, when this door shut, another opened, and it was at this time that I became interested in old-time string band music.
Learning to Play the Banjo

Around 1999, I went to see Benton Flippen's band, The Smokey Valley Boys, at the Alleghany Jubilee in Sparta, North Carolina. It was at this time that I decided that I wanted to learn how to play the banjo, but it wasn't until September of 2000, that I bought my first banjo and took a few bluegrass style banjo lessons, I found this style of playing the banjo was not for me. I wanted to play the local, old-time style of music. I basically taught myself to play by listening to older musicians from the Round Peak area. The first recordings I bought were Tommy Jarrell's Joke on the Puppy, Dix Freeman's Tonenail Gap String Band, and Kyle Creed's Liberty album. These recordings influenced my banjo playing in a profound way because I learned things from them that I could not learn from other people.

I was lucky to have relatives around me who encouraged me to carry on the tradition of playing the banjo in the Round Peak style. My cousins, Paul Sutphin, Verlin Clifton, and Kirk Sutphin offered me support and emphasized the importance of learning the "old ways." Paul and Verlin, were members of the Camp Creek Boys, a legendary old-time string band from the Round Peak area. Paul told me about my great and great-great grandpas who were also clawhammer banjo players in Round Peak. Kirk and Verlin showed me several tunes on the banjo and helped me get my start.

I have played with many musicians including Benton Flippen, Kirk Sutphin, and the New Ballards' Branch Bogtrotters. I am a six-time first place winner at the Johnson County Old-Time Fiddlers' Convention, held at Laurel Bloomery, Tennesse, a three-time consecutive first place winner at the Alleghany County Fiddlers' Convention, held in Sparta, North Carolina, and most recently I won first place at the 2008 and 2009 Blue Ridge Banjo Shootout, sponsored by the Blue Ridge Music Maker's Guild in Galax, Virginia. Currently I play the banjo with the award-winning Galax, Virginia based old-time-band, Southern Pride. The band features James Burris on fiddle, Joey Burris on guitar, Ronnie Lyons on mandolin, and Terry Semones on bass, and myself on banjo. We enjoy playing for fiddlers' conventions, benefits, and community events. Influences on my banjo playing include Kyle Creed, Charlie Lowe, Dix Freeman, Fred Cockerham, Tommy Jarrell, and Gilmer Woodruff.

One thing that always stuck with me is something that my late Great cousin Paul Sutphin told me was: He said son if your playing a tune that has words you have to hear them words coming out of that banjo. I've always stuck with this. This what Paul told me is something that a lot of today's banjo players need to stick to.
I remember the first dance I ever played was the 1st of the year in 2001. I played with Benton and the Smokey Valley Boys at a Sparta Dance. Ever since then Benton has always been like a grandfather to me. I go help him out around his home and we still play lots of music together. Learning tunes from Benton is just great. We'll set and play for hours and he brings out these local tunes I've never herd of and he'll tell me where he learn them.
Me and Benton was setting around a few years ago playing some tunes at the Mt. Airy Fiddlers and this feller walked up and started playing guitar with us and he is a highly respected banjo player to lots of the northern folks. He said you play the banjo really great not to be putting in as many notes as I do on the banjo. I told him It wasn't all about how many notes you played on the banjo it's the notes that the fiddle is playing and matching those notes as closely as possible. He said OH I SEE. Benton just looked up with a big grin and we kept playing.

Here are a couple of quotes from my CD Round Peak The Tradition Continues:

"From the first notes of the the Surry County National Anthem, Sally Ann, you know this is going to be good. Kevin Fore has brought together a stellar group of Round Peak musicians centered around his fine banjo playing. It is proof that the tradition is in good hands."

David Holt

"The Friday afternoon of this year's Mount Airy Fiddlers' Convention, I passed by the tent where Kirk Sutphin was playing fiddle accompanied by a banjo player. Kirk called out, 'Charlie you ought to hear my friend, Kevin Fore. He plays just like Kyle Creed.' I did and, after a couple of tunes, said, 'He sounds more like Kyle than Kyle did.' I began asking for songs that I knew Kyle had played and songs I never had heard Kyle play. All came back with the powerful, clear and not over-worked sound that Kyle had. During one pause, conversation drifted to the banjo Kevin was playing..One of the best sounding banjos I've heard, it was made by Kevin and patterned after the open-backed banjos Kyle used to make.

Kevin has surrounded himself on this CD with masters of the storied Round Peak style, including key members of Kyle Creed's '60s and '70s Camp Creek Boys, Benton Flippen, Verlin Clifton, Katie Golding, and Bobby Patterson, exceptional current practitioners Kirk Sutphin, Eddie Bond, Mac Snow, Chester McMillian and Galax musicians James and Joey Burris. One listen to the CD quells any doubts that Round Peak music is as great as ever."

Charlie Faurot, Midlothian, Virginia, August 2008
Charlie was the first one to ever record the Camp Creek Boys and he recorded the 3 volume set of the Clawhammer banjo albums

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Round Peak Banjo''s by Kevin Fore
Lowgap, N.C.
www.roundpeakbanjos.com
I have a new CD out called Round Peak The Tradition Continues. I do all the clawhammer banjo work. It features all Round Peak tunes but 1 Bluegrass tune Head Over Heels done on a fretless The CD can be purchased directly from me for 15 bucks and I do accept PayPal. Some of the folks that helped me out were. Kirk Sutphin, Benton Flippen, Chester Mcmillian, David Holt, Verlin Clifton, Bobby Patterson, Katie Golding, Eddie Bond and my regular band Southern Pride
It is available now directly from me or CD Baby http://cdbaby.com/cd/kevinfore

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Edited by - roundpeakbanjos.com on 07/31/2009 06:45:53

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/31/2009:  16:50:29

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This is one of the great new old time cds to come out recently. Kevin and his gang have captured the feeling of the long gone RP masters yet do it within their own style. Get the disc.

I've you only buy 4 new cds this Millenium - make this one of them.

If you are interested in what I say on the hangout you should download a free copy of Rocket Science Banjo - the Advanced Method For Beginning to Intermediate Clawhammer Players. Along with the full text in PDF you will also find the four current RSB videos and the "25 EZ Clawhammer Tunes" at:
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com

To print the tabs separately from the book you need TEFView a free download from:
http://www.tabledit.com

Banjo Brad is still hosting "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" and some other material at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
A site chock full of interesting banjo material

banjo bill-e - Posted - 08/01/2009:  09:45:17

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----"son if your playing a tune that has words you have to hear them words coming out of that banjo"
Wow, what great advice!.

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Bill

I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

1fiddle2play - Posted - 08/03/2009:  01:59:38

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What is so funny abt all this...The northern folks came and recorded Tommy Jarrell, Wade Ward and all the others that were popular in the NW Carolina and SW Virginia area. Most of these recorded artist from that area were well known due to fiddlers conventions. I dont remember Tommy playing at a contest but sure most the others did. But in,other areas of Virginia and NC was plenty of great clawhammer and old time fiddle players that did not go to fiddlers contests but played old time music a heck of alot better and cleaner then what I have heard on those recordings. Just as now I know plenty of very good banjo and fiddle players that do not go to contests due to judges picking same ole local favorite pickers. But I think alot of others already know that fact. I say just enjoy the music and quit the fretting..excuse the pun..Long live Stringbean and Grandpa Jones......