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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Modes in doublestops


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Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/07/2008:  14:25:12


Concerning the modes discussed in another thread, I suggest to practice them not only as single lines, but also in doublestops with the lower voice third apart - the correct third (major or minor), so the lower note falls also into the particular mode. The only exception is the root, which has lower voice perfect fourth appart. This exercise helps me to hear modes better.

Here are six G modes on DG strings of our banjos. (Locrian mode is missing as it has no perfect fourth below the root.)

G lydian mode
G-0--2--4--6--7--9-11-12-
D-0--4--5--7--9-11-12-12-

G ionian mode (G major)
G-0--2--4--5--7--9-11-12-
D-0--4--5--7--9-10-12-12-

G mixolydian mode
G-0--2--4--5--7--9-10-12-
D-0--3--5--7--9-10-12-12-

G dorian mode
G-0--2--3--5--7--9-10-12-
D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12-

G aeolian mode (G minor)
G-0--2--3--5--7--8-10-12-
D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12-

G phrygian mode
G-0--1--3--5--7--8-10-12-
D-0--3--5--6--8-10-12-12-
Mirek

http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo


Edited by - Mirek Patek on 03/07/2008 16:58:45

Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/07/2008:  22:58:19


quote:
Originally posted by Mirek Patek

Concerning the modes discussed in another thread, I suggest to practice them not only as single lines, but also in doublestops with the lower voice third apart - the correct third (major or minor), so the lower note falls also into the particular mode. The only exception is the root, which has lower voice perfect fourth appart. This exercise helps me to hear modes better.
This is great ear training. You are brilliant.

It occurs to me at first glance that five-string players could double up the D strings - that is, play the fourth and first strings and practice forward, backward and reverse rolls (on the fourth, third and first strings) using these positions, even leaving out one or two chords to play hexatonic and pentatonic patterns.... Yep, it works.

This is brilliant Mirek, you ROCK! Did I say that already?


Happy pickin',

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com

RyanHerr - Posted - 03/11/2008:  17:55:01


I sort of do this with major and minor but not with the modes, that's challenging, and something and to work on. Good idea Mirek!

The difference in what I do is that I play 3rds on strings 1 & 2 of a 5 string banjo, and 6ths on strings 1 & 3 or on strings 2 & 4.

-Ryan.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/12/2008:  04:29:38


Thanks, Tom and Ryan.

Here are the modes of melodic minor scale.

For the record: from the theory point of view, the melodic minor scale can be derived by raising the 6th and 7th degrees of aeolian mode (minor scale). Theoretically uncorrect, but more easy derivation of fingering is by lowering the 3rd degree of ionian mode (major scale) or by raising the 7th degree of dorian mode.

I am repeating here the modes of major scale with the main voice on higher string and third (fourth in case of root) on deeper string. Now they are from A in order to catch the locrian mode with augmented lower fourth under the root. Then the melodic minor modes are presented, again on the D and G strings. Of course, one should find the doublestops on another pairs of strings too, but I will leave this to 5-string players here.

Modes of major scale

1) A ionian mode (A major)
G-2--4--6--7--9-11-13-14-
D-2--6--7--9-11-12-14-14-

2) A dorian mode
G-2--4--5--7--9-11-12-14-
D-2--5--7--9-10-12-14-14-

3) A phrygian mode
G-2--3--5--7--9-10-12-14-
D-2--5--7--8-10-12-14-14-

4) A lydian mode
G-2--4--6--8--9-11-13-14-
D-2--6--7--9-11-13-14-14-

5) A mixolydian mode
G-2--4--6--7--9-11-12-14-
D-2--5--7--9-11-12-14-14-

6) A aeolian mode (A minor)
G-2--4--5--7--9-10-12-14-
D-2--5--7--9-10-12-14-14-

7) A locrian mode
G-2--3--5--7--8-10-12-14-
D-1--5--7--8-10-12-13-13-

Modes of melodic minor scale

For more info (terminology, usage etc.) look e.g. at
http://www.guitar-dreams.com/guitar...onid-20.html
1) ionian with b3 or dorian with #7
G-2--4--5--7--9-11-13-14-
D-2--6--7--9-10-12-14-14-

2) dorian with b2 or phrygian with #6
G-2--3--5--7--9-11-12-14-
D-2--5--7--8-10-12-14-14-

3) lydian with #5
G-2--4--6--8-10-11-13-14-
D-3--6--7--9-11-13-15-15-

4) lydian with b7 or mixolydian with #4
G-2--4--6--8--9-11-12-14-
D-2--5--7--9-11-13-14-14-

5) mixolydian with b6 or aeolian with #3
G-2--4--6--7--9-10-12-14-
D-2--5--7--9-11-12-14-14-

6) aeolian with b5 or locrian with #2
G-2--4--5--7--8-10-12-14-
D-1--5--7--9-10-12-13-13-

7) locrian with b4
G-2--3--5--6--8-10-12-14-
D-1--5--7--8-10-11-13-13-
Modes of harmonic minor and harmonic major scales will follow.

Mirek

http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/12/2008:  04:44:56


Modes of harmonic minor scale

For more info (terminology, usage etc.) look e.g. at
http://www.guitar-dreams.com/harmonicminor.html

1) aeolian with #7
G-2--4--5--7--9-10-13-14-
D-2--6--7--9-10-12-14-14-

2) locrian with #6
G-2--3--5--7--8-11-12-14-
D-1--5--7--8-10-12-13-13-

3) ionian with #5
G-2--4--6--7-10-11-13-14-
D-3--6--7--9-11-12-15-15-

4) dorian with #4
G-2--4--5--8--9-11-12-14-
D-2--5--7--9-10-13-14-14-

5) phrygian with #3
G-2--3--6--7--9-10-12-14-
D-2--5--7--8-11-12-14-14-

6) lydian with #2
G-2--5--6--8--9-11-13-14-
D-2--6--7-10-11-13-14-14-

7)
G-2--3--5--6--8-10-11-14-
D-1--4--7--8-10-11-13-13-

Modes of harmonic major scale
1) ionian with b6
G-2--4--6--7--9-10-13-14-
D-2--6--7--9-11-12-14-14-

2) dorian with b5
G-2--4--5--7--8-11-12-14-
D-1--5--7--9-10-12-13-13-

3) phrygian with b4
G-2--3--5--6--9-10-12-14-
D-2--5--7--8-10-11-14-14-

4) lydian with b3
G-2--4--5--8--9-11-13-14-
D-2--6--7--9-10-13-14-14-

5) mixolydian with b2
G-2--3--6--7--9-11-12-14-
D-2--5--7--8-11-12-14-14-

6)
G-2--5--6--8-10-11-13-14-
D-3--6--7-10-11-13-15-15-

7) locrian with b7
G-2--3--5--7--8-10-11-14-
D-1--4--7--8-10-12-13-13-
Mirek

http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo

Trent in WA - Posted - 03/15/2008:  02:01:29


Mirek, this is truly wonderful. I'm a raw beginner on banjo but this is the sort of thing I would work out on guitar (my main instrument) long ago. Thank you from the bottom of my lazy heart!

http://www.myspace.com/trentghill

Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/19/2008:  16:17:01


Awesome. Mirek, you really are thorough and precise in your exercises, the hallmark of a true musician. I am in awe. I think that practicing these can lead directly to composing new and unusual tunes. Thank you for this. I can't wait to practice these, but now I have to cook dinner....

Happy pickin',

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com


Edited by - Tom Hanway on 03/28/2008 20:37:08

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/27/2008:  02:11:16


If the melody is played up the neck on the high d string of 5-string banjo, it can be harmonised not only by lower third, but also by lower tenth (10) - the third plus octave. The root is harmonised by lower eleventh (11) - the fourth plus octave. Here is the example in case of G modes (in case of A modes the eleventh may be tough for the left hand, but it is good finger-stretching execise).

G lydian mode
d-5--7--9-11-12-14-16-17-
B------------------------
G------------------------
D-0--4--5--7--9-11-12-12-
g------------------------

G ionian mode (G major)
d-5--7--9-10-12-14-16-17-
B------------------------
G------------------------
D-0--4--5--7--9-10-12-12-
g------------------------

G mixolydian mode
d-5--7--9-10-12-14-15-17-
B------------------------
G------------------------
D-0--3--5--7--9-10-12-12-
g------------------------

G dorian mode
d-5--7--8-10-12-14-15-17-
B------------------------
G------------------------
D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12-
g------------------------

G aeolian mode (G minor)
d-5--7--8-10-12-13-15-17-
B------------------------
G------------------------
D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12-
g------------------------

G phrygian mode
d-5--6--8-10-12-13-15-17-
B------------------------
G------------------------
D-0--3--5--6--8-10-12-12-
g------------------------
Mirek

http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo


Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/27/2008 02:14:40

Mirek Patek - Posted - 07/14/2008:  01:07:36


One of possible right hand executions of these doublestops is discussed here:
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=111388

Mirek

http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo

Mirek Patek - Posted - 12/22/2008:  03:00:58


quote:
Originally posted by Mirek Patek

The only exception is the root, which has lower voice perfect fourth appart.
For the upper root, one can play the lower (minor or major) sixth instead of the perfect fourth. Demonstrated here on the six G modes on DG strings from the first post.
G lydian mode
G-0--2--4--6--7--9-11-12-
D-0--4--5--7--9-11-12--9-

G ionian mode (G major)
G-0--2--4--5--7--9-11-12-
D-0--4--5--7--9-10-12--9-

G mixolydian mode
G-0--2--4--5--7--9-10-12-
D-0--3--5--7--9-10-12--9-

G dorian mode
G-0--2--3--5--7--9-10-12-
D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12--8-

G aeolian mode (G minor)
G-0--2--3--5--7--8-10-12-
D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12--8-

G phrygian mode
G-0--1--3--5--7--8-10-12-
D-0--3--5--6--8-10-12--8-
Mirek

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/user/mirekpatek
http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo


Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/28/2009 03:50:53

KevinP - Posted - 12/22/2008:  05:31:36


Hey Mirek, thanks for the post...

I'm just starting to learn about scales and modes and this is great for learning.


Kevin

pearcemusic - Posted - 04/28/2009:  05:58:57


quote:
Originally posted by KevinP

Hey Mirek, thanks for the post...

I'm just starting to learn about scales and modes and this is great for learning.


Kevin





then try modal triads
i.e. Gmaj, Am, Bm, Cmaj, Dmaj, Em, F#dim .... ionian
Am, Bm, Cmaj, Dmaj, Em, F#dim, Gmaj .... dorian
move to next mode by shifting bottom triad to the top
etc ...

then full four note arpeggios ...
i.e. Gmaj7, Am7, Bm7, Cmaj7, D7, Em7, F#mi7-5 .... ionian

etc.

each added note helps you hear the flavor of the mode in a better way.


see my pics page for more exercises/lessons

The Pearce Family Bluegrass Band
www.pearcemusic.com


Edited by - pearcemusic on 04/28/2009 09:22:51

RPM - Posted - 04/28/2009:  16:56:12


This is a very helpful post. Kudos.

It's also good to remember that you don't have to start on the root, and especially the root and fifth -- although as Mirek shows here that can work.

But you can also start with notes that make up an interval of a third (or sixth, depending on which you consider the melody and which is the harmony) within the scale, so that you also start and end on a third instead on the fifth.

Often, the fifth or the third note in the scale is the jumping off point.
For example, say you’re in A Ionian (major) . Instead of starting with the A on the third string and E on the fourth string, try starting with the C# on the second string and E and on the fourth string. They’re the third and fifth notes in the scale and a minor third or major sixth apart, depending on which is the melody note.


String D: ----------------------
String B: 2 - 3 - 5 - 7 - 9 - 10 – 12 - 14
String G: ----------------------
String D: 2 -4 - 6- 7 - 9 - 11 – 13 - 14

Notice that there’s a pattern. After the first double stop, the notes are one fret apart twice, then in the same fret twice, then one fret apart twice, then back to the same fret at the octave.

If you start on the 7/7 step -- which has the root A on the fourth string – or 11/10, which has the root A on the second string – and flip back to the beginning after the octave the fingering pattern is two one way and two another way all the way through.

In any of the modes, if you start on a notes that make a third ( or sixth) interval within the mode, there will only be two finger patterns as you go up the strings. Of course, you won’t always have two of one fingering patter and then two of the other – the exact order the fingering patterns come in depends on the mode and where you’re starting.

But there will always be two patterns. Which makes it easier to get a handle on.
Also, the fact that all of the intervals are a third (or sixth) means you can move them from string pair to string pair. For example, when you get to the A note on the fourth string in the example, you can move it to the third string, and the notes on the second string would then move to the first. So:


String D: ----------------------
String B: 2 - 3 - 5 - 7 - 9 - 10 – 12 - 14
String G: ----------------------
String D: 2 -4 - 6- 7 - 9 - 11 – 13 - 14

Is equal to

String D: ------------4-6-7-9-11
String B: 2 - 3 - 5 - --------------
String G: ------------2-4-6-7-9-
String D: 2 -4 - 6- --------------


Notice that the fingering patterns change when you go to different strings, but there are still two pat-terns.
Being able to switch string pairs allows you to go lower than the root in this case or avoid going as high up the neck if you want to keep going up the scale.



Edited by - RPM on 04/29/2009 10:12:38

brokenstrings - Posted - 04/28/2009:  20:54:45


I'm gonna try it.

Jessy

Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!

banjovy - Posted - 04/28/2009:  21:16:35


Excellent work Mirek! I will check out the melodic and harmonic minor ones! Thank you

pearcemusic - Posted - 04/29/2009:  12:11:22


see if this is applicable ... some major diatonic modes with a RH crossover emphasis



ascending melodic minor and harmonic minor modes are easy to do as well

The Pearce Family Bluegrass Band
www.pearcemusic.com


Edited by - pearcemusic on 04/29/2009 12:13:18

Joe Larson - Posted - 04/30/2009:  06:42:49


cool chart Doub, thanks for posting.

j

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user...&view=videos
I''d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.



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