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cottontop - Posted - 12/18/2007: 08:01:43
I have been watching and listening to John Hartford on YouTube and I am really curious about his style of playing the banjo. I really love it. He seems to play a simple style that is not over loaded w/ hundreds of fancy licks, the way so many bluegrass pickers seem to play today. Oh, he does throw in some licks now and then, but not lick after lick after lick.
I would call his style a combination of Scruggs and melodic, but this could just be my impression and I may be wrong. So what name would his style have? Maybe it is the "Hartford" style.
BTW, I sure do wish he was still with us.
cottontop
gshank - Posted - 12/18/2007: 09:02:36
I love John Hartford. I think I probably sent my kids those same links you've watched and I told them that John Hartford really understood what PLAYING music was all about. He had fun and it showed.
You've probably got a description of his style pegged--John was a very good friend of Earl Scruggs and learned much from him, but John obviously had his own twist to it.
John has a 2 DVD instructional set out where he describes his style himself and gives some pointers. I've seen some snippets from it and I've asked for it for Christmas. I'm just hoping Santa still watches out for us old timers.
Hopalong - Posted - 12/18/2007: 09:24:56
It's the John Hartford Style of Banjo Playing. Most Banjo players will instantly identify it when they hear it. Nobody plays like John Hartford did. He was one of a kind. His Instructional DVDs on Homespun,will not help you play the way he did, but they wil get you to think differently about the banjo and to understand the instrument much more. Highly recommended and a pleasure to watch.
Hopalong Peter
swiggin - Posted - 12/18/2007: 10:01:14
I would have to agree with the previous reply of homespun not giving the full understanding of his style, but perhaps a glimpse as to how to approach it. Hartford is the only real reason I started to listening to banjo (full time), and started to play. It was after leaving a 'record in the sun', Grateful Dead-Terrapin Station, that I discovered his music, and I haven't stopped listening yet. Although I appreciate others virtuosity on the instrument, the lyrical quality, and the sense of personal reach he creates is unlike any others I have heard. If anybody is interested I have a reproduction of his in .pdf that I would be willing to send if anyone interested, just email me (although it may be delayed reply, as I will be home over the holidays). Those who would like to know more of Hartford may want to check out johnhartford.org if you haven't already, it has some good material on him, and others.
Seth
vernob - Posted - 12/18/2007: 10:02:43
John Hartford was a singer/songwriter who played banjo and fiddle to accompany his singing. A lot of players are the other way around. They're instrumentalists at heart who would sing only on occasion. Earl was one of those. No shame in it, obviously. Earl was brilliant. John was not as HOT on his instruments. He could play well enough, but never made it bigger than the song.
Bruce Vernon
"A gentleman is a man who knows how to play the banjo, but chooses not to." - Mark Twain
"Don't worry about mistakes. There aren't any." - Miles Davis
glboggs - Posted - 12/18/2007: 10:55:41
I just love hearing people talking about John hartford. He's where I started too. I think you'd get a lot of insight about his style by reading the AWESOME article on his in Masters of the 5 String Banjo. The picture there is great. Fellow BHO member made a paiting repro of it and shared it with me. It captures Hartford's spirit.
By the way, his middle name was Cowan, which makes an odd coincidence in his co-sponsorship of what we call Newgrass with Cowan-Bush-Fleck-Flynn-etc.
Also, Swiggin, will you send me the PDF you're talking about? glboggs@hotmail.com
dbrooks - Posted - 12/18/2007: 11:43:21
Hartford's influence is still plenty strong, isn't it?
A Louisville photographer and filmmaker, Sheila Nichols, is working on a film documentary about John. She has interviewed lots of fellow performers, and it is an active project. Sheila is a fine fiddler in her own right and has an old-time band. She also plays in the contra dance band I sit in with. She knew John well and owns one of his fiddles.
It's probably too soon to speculate on when it might be available, but it's good to know it's in the works.
David
bosborne - Posted - 12/18/2007: 12:41:23
This thread is a wonderful coincidence. I got into the banjo because I like the sound of it, not because of any love of bluegrass. I'm learning my bluegrass standards and enjoying it but I know I really want to play 3-fingered in a more "folk" style. So anyway I've been searching for the people who did this, and I was over at the Homespun site and I saw the John Hartford DVDs, and I watched the videos. I thought "maybe this is the guy I'm looking for!" Anyway, I'm going over to Youtube now!
Swiggin, can you send me your PDF? Thank you for that. bosborne11@verizon.net
Douch - Posted - 12/18/2007: 13:43:30
John's music sounds so simple until you try and duplicate it and then it and then...Tough. He was amazing at making complicated things look or sound simple. He also had a style of double thumbing that fifth string that is so easily recognizable as John. Sure miss that dude.
http://Diegodelvalle.com
http
Banjo MD - Posted - 12/18/2007: 14:12:53
Hey Diego, please tell us the story about how John recognized you and remembered your name! (Love it! )
William
Jim Yates - Posted - 12/18/2007: 14:29:43
John had the greatest tone. I loved the dynamics on Steam-Powered Areoplane. His playing (to me) is very hard to duplicate. I don't do a lot of three finger playing, but I've always loved John Hartford since I got MORNING BUGLE about 32 years ago.
I once heard the two Canadian Chrises (Coole & Quinn) play a super banjo duet of Steam-Powered Areoplane. I later bought the CD with their version on it.
Flathead75 - Posted - 12/18/2007: 17:07:13
John's style was just his style. I think it would be hard to emulate because it was part of him, his mind. I have a great friend that owns the low banjo he used on the Aereoplane album. He borrowed it because his wasn't finished yet. There were two built by Tom Morgan, a well known Dayton Tennessee luthier, and previous bassist with the Country Gents. Doc was able to make many river boat trips with John and visited him at his home to jam before he died. I just wish I had been around and gotten to know him. He said the royalties on Gentle on my Mind paid him enough to tell Nashville to Kiss his Axe, and he was able to pilot river boats that he loved, and play "his" music .
There will never be another John Hartford!!
Keith
Keith
stanger - Posted - 12/18/2007: 20:02:35
John had different approaches in his playing. When he was singing and using the banjo for accompaniment, he did many things that were similar to Pete Seeger, except that John used the 3-finger style always, instead of Seeger's strumming styles. Three of his most common approaches were: setting up a harmony line on his banjo, so it acted as a second voice, and using descending and ascending bass lines with full chords, not just the bass only. He would also develop a little lick that he would return to again and again, as a pinning point that the melody could dance around. These licks would follow the chord progression of the tune.
'Gentle On My Mind' is a good example of the second. The melody is just a descending bass line, played over and over that doesn't reslove itself until the very end of a verse.
But on his instrumental pieces, he was strongly melodic. He had some licks he developed that would work anywhere, anytime, especially his 'slide whistle lick', that enabled him so transit seamlessly from Scruggs style into melodic and back again, and also allowed him to modulate from one key to another.
If you listen to his various recordings of 'Gentle on My Mind' you'll hear the full genius of his playing. His banjo backup on Glenn Campbell's recording is completely different from his instrumental version on the Glitter Grass album, recorded 15 years later. His own singing of this tune was usually accompanied by the second way he played it, but he did the song in a variety of ways... it must have been a personal favorite, because he recorded it quite a lot.
John could play very fast, but his banjo's tone was so low, dry and thumpy that his speed is deceiving. He would often play the banjo double-time to his slower vocal lines, but it all sounds very laid back. That is, until you try to play along with him! He could easily hit 210 bpm and keep it steady as a rock.
His harmonies on the banjo were also unconventional. Scruggs most often used two adjoining strings for his harmonies, but John tended to use 1st and 3rd, or 2nd and 4th. He could also do things like Earl anytime, and would use them all in mixture constantly. This was a discovery I learned a long time ago, and has been a major influence in my playing ever since.
He very deliberately chose which instrument he would use to accompany his singing when he was at his best. He loved long bow fiddling and was a master of the style. The fiddle often gave him the counterpoint he wanted that he couldn't get from the banjo. Long-bow style allows for a very wide tempo range.
regards,
Stanger
The pen is mightier than the pigs.
ProfessorBanjo - Posted - 12/18/2007: 23:34:51
John played this simple style while tap dancing, singing and kept a careful eye on the connection he was making with his audience. He was truly amazing and a great entertainer.
In his latter years, he would not shake hands instead he would lock elbows with people he would meet. He actually did this for health reasons by passing germs with a traditional handshake.
John was always outside the box.
...you kids play nice and remember, use your words.
Jim Yates - Posted - 12/19/2007: 10:30:38
ProfessorBanjo,
When John met Washboard Hank at a festival, he admired his instrument and said,"Give me a do-si-do for that."
Mr. Disco - Posted - 12/19/2007: 18:35:57
quote:
Originally posted by stangerIf you listen to his various recordings of 'Gentle on My Mind' you'll hear the full genius of his playing. His banjo backup on Glenn Campbell's recording is completely different from his instrumental version on the Glitter Grass album, recorded 15 years later. His own singing of this tune was usually accompanied by the second way he played it, but he did the song in a variety of ways... it must have been a personal favorite, because he recorded it quite a lot.
There's quite a few clips on YouTube I've seen of this song. Note, however, that Mr. Campbell's studio version of "Gentle on my Mind" from the album of the same name is, I think, recorded with Doug Dillard playing the banjo. Shalom. -- Mr. Disco
Kevin B - Posted - 12/19/2007: 20:46:45
WHen I saw John perform the thing that came to my mind was flow, just absolute flow.
Kevin ( )=='=~
'Possum, It's what's for dinner . . ."
stanger - Posted - 12/19/2007: 22:15:09
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Disco
quote:
Originally posted by stangerIf you listen to his various recordings of 'Gentle on My Mind' you'll hear the full genius of his playing. His banjo backup on Glenn Campbell's recording is completely different from his instrumental version on the Glitter Grass album, recorded 15 years later. His own singing of this tune was usually accompanied by the second way he played it, but he did the song in a variety of ways... it must have been a personal favorite, because he recorded it quite a lot.
There's quite a few clips on YouTube I've seen of this song. Note, however, that Mr. Campbell's studio version of "Gentle on my Mind" from the album of the same name is, I think, recorded with Doug Dillard playing the banjo.
Shalom.
-- Mr. Disco
Hi, Disco... It's been so long since I had the Campbell record in my hands I honestly can't remember who the banjoist was. The tone of the banjo sounded like the Gibson John used for his first recordings, but my memory of the tone is pretty old now, too. You may well be right! The only thing I clearly remember was how different the banjo playing was from John's first album 'John Hartford Looks at Life'. But his banjo playing on that one was different from later ones- he had a constant evolution in his style that is most obvious listening to records that span the decades of his career. regards, Stanger The pen is mightier than the pigs.
mike gregory - Posted - 12/19/2007: 23:33:02
In an interview on PBS, about the Mississippi river, John was interviewed as a river pilot.
He said
"My art consists in doing what I enjoy.
That way, if others also enjoy it, well and good.
And if not,
at least I haven't wasted my time."
What a wonderful way to explain how one might live one's life.
=):{ )
Mike Gregory, Banjo Maker Infraordinaire
When I say my instruments are as good as anything Gibson or Martin ever made,
I mean MEL Gibson and DEAN Martin!
SEASONAL SONG on my HOMEPAGE
"Run, Mary, Run!"
http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango....asp?id=8805
My banjos can be seen on my own website
http://littlebanjos.lunare.net
fingerbuster - Posted - 12/20/2007: 06:24:23
There ain't many solo artists that are a master of the whole range of Bluegrass instruments, And, can sing and dance whilst performing! What a talented, self effacing gentle guy he was, I'm soooo miffed that I never had a chance to meet him. Maybe later?
orvillej - Posted - 12/21/2007: 12:53:43
i believe doug dillard played banjo on the glen campbell hit version of gentle on my mind.
jojo25 - Posted - 12/21/2007: 14:43:27
as a great fan of John I must chime in here
I recall reading somewhere that John created a very fast tempo with his banjar picking up using left hand techniques...combos of pulls and hammers...effectively creating a double time effect (I think)...that was rather difficult to keep up with
I concur with the folks that have said John's playing was unique...and I would say the same of his fiddle style...God broke the mold when he created John Hartford...and the point about the royalties from Gentle on my Mind is spot on...this liberated John to do as he pleased, knowing full well that he wouldn't starve...and he went off on musical tangents, chasing whatever his current obession was...quite a bit of the music created on those tangents was wonderful...some dubious experiments at times...but all and all a great gift to the world
we miss you John!!
Banjonically yours
Joe
scottc - Posted - 12/21/2007: 19:51:29
Hi Hartford fans...I don't know how many of you may have found this already, but I stumbled upon this site kind of by accident http://www.thespps.org/ . There are downloadable mp3s here that may be of interest to some of you. My favorite so far is a recording of an FM broadcast by WEVO-FM, New Hampshire Public Radio from April 23, 1988 at the Nashua Center for the Arts, Nashua, NH. The sound quality is really quite good and it's a great variety of tunes by John.
jojo25 - Posted - 04/23/2008: 11:08:58
Scott...thanks for that link!
Drop thumbs, not bombs
Joe
jojo25 - Posted - 04/23/2008: 11:09:30
Scott...thanks for that link!
Drop thumbs, not bombs
Joe
jojo25 - Posted - 04/23/2008: 11:09:47
Scott...thanks for that link!
Drop thumbs, not bombs
Joe
cottontop - Posted - 05/09/2008: 09:03:20
Just got my DVD of "The Banjo According to John Hartford." Man it is great. I have already learned some things from it and I'm sure I will see new things as I watch it over and over.
cottontop
Rich Weill - Posted - 05/09/2008: 12:18:57
quote:
Originally posted by cottontop
Just got my DVD of "The Banjo According to John Hartford." Man it is great. I have already learned some things from it and I'm sure I will see new things as I watch it over and over.
My sentiments exactly. We're all very lucky that John preserved so much of his banjo wisdom when he did. Now, based on glboggs' post, I'm anxious to get my hands on "Masters of the 5-String Banjo."
mainejohn - Posted - 05/09/2008: 15:10:24
His youtube version of "Lorena" with son Jamie on the mandolin cuts right thru me. I have watched it over and over and over.
Cheers,
John
Scarborough, Maine
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